tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post5579148051516844354..comments2024-03-28T15:33:37.338-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: Ace of AcesOldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-40159562264839476202014-02-06T18:19:15.298-08:002014-02-06T18:19:15.298-08:00Amazing. Beautiful country down there around Garmi...Amazing. Beautiful country down there around Garmisch. I spent a week in Oberammergau, not far away. Didn't see any 109s parked anywhere. Shame.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-13990948398617078372014-02-06T17:02:16.067-08:002014-02-06T17:02:16.067-08:00PS: The guy was a character. He came from a farm j...PS: The guy was a character. He came from a farm just outside Garmisch and when the cease-fire was called he simply "demobed" by flying his plane home, landing and parking it in the field next to the family farmhouse and began farming again. It took the US occupation types about six months to notice that there was a perfectly serviceable combat-ready 109 sitting unsecured on a Bavarian farm on a mountainside. They finally sent a crew, crane and flat-bed to cart it off, lol. virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-5842497983727250012014-02-06T11:47:30.969-08:002014-02-06T11:47:30.969-08:00Excellent tale Virgil!
(Those things tended to tr...Excellent tale Virgil!<br /><br />(Those things tended to travel in pairs didn't they?)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-2280887465773422292014-02-06T11:46:25.164-08:002014-02-06T11:46:25.164-08:00Acclamation it is...Acclamation it is...OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-20895358298522979082014-02-06T11:07:45.831-08:002014-02-06T11:07:45.831-08:00BTW, FWIW once when I was on an accident investiga...BTW, FWIW once when I was on an accident investigation team down at <i>Furstenfeldbruck</i> outside Munich when one of our UK sister squadrons birds went off the end of the runway on t.o in heavy fog, the German ALO assigned to us was an old WW II 109 pilot. At the bar one night he related the following: "The first P-51 I ever see in my life, I shoot him down! Then I looked over my shoulder and see the second P-51 I'd ever seen in my life, and he was shooting <i>me</i> down!" LOL!virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-74578150652670432602014-02-06T11:03:34.343-08:002014-02-06T11:03:34.343-08:00Ave VX, Ave!Ave VX, Ave!HMS Defianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10024721130102173694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-5823135254431364642014-02-06T10:56:04.377-08:002014-02-06T10:56:04.377-08:00Hear hear!
(You got my vote. Er, would El Cid be ...Hear hear!<br /><br />(You got my vote. Er, would <em>El Cid</em> be voted in or would that be by acclamation?)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-73272844183142397892014-02-06T10:49:29.434-08:002014-02-06T10:49:29.434-08:00Were I El CID (or as soon as I attain that status,...Were I <i>El CID</i> (or as soon as I attain that status, lol) I'd require every flying squadron to have a library of paperbacks of every air combat title ever published to instill a sense of history in an increasingly unread population..virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-59460037071173296972014-02-06T07:53:24.267-08:002014-02-06T07:53:24.267-08:00I try Juvat. I try. (It's the amateur historia...I try Juvat. I try. (It's the amateur historian in me!)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-5639708464976042112014-02-06T07:12:59.104-08:002014-02-06T07:12:59.104-08:00Dang, Sarge! You are just a FONT of knowledge!Dang, Sarge! You are just a FONT of knowledge!juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-7969225164740839292014-02-05T19:30:00.538-08:002014-02-05T19:30:00.538-08:00There actually are (probably "were" by n...There actually are (probably "were" by now) post-war, de-nazified (i.e. no swastika) versions of many WWII German decorations. The Iron Cross in particular, which was established in 1813 and based on the cross carried by the Teutonic knights in the 14th century. That particular medal has a long tradition in German military history, though the Nazis made a bigger deal out of than it was originally. In WWI the highest German decoration was the <em>Pour le Mérite</em> (the Blue Max) which had been established in 1740 by Frederick the Great. Rommel had been decorated with both the Blue Max (WWI) and the Knight's Cross (WWII).OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-77668021805817120922014-02-05T19:24:07.065-08:002014-02-05T19:24:07.065-08:00I know. An important guy but...I know. An important guy but...OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-78440985023882104252014-02-05T18:50:28.120-08:002014-02-05T18:50:28.120-08:00I just loaded all kinds of cool no blocker softwar...I just loaded all kinds of cool no blocker software into firefox and some things are taking a bit of getting used to. I was also going to wonder if it is de classe´for Luftwaffe pilots to wear all their various Iron Crosses when flying for the post War German Air Force.HMS Defianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10024721130102173694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-84911469807235425662014-02-05T18:44:41.627-08:002014-02-05T18:44:41.627-08:00Some of us grew up with Rickenbacker, Nungesser an...Some of us grew up with Rickenbacker, Nungesser and Lufberry. We also got a good dose of Lindbergh, Bong and quite a few others. All of the books were in the big house library when I was little. By the time I got to the Air Force the only person they ever mentioned was whossname, Mitchell.HMS Defianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10024721130102173694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-71975389719289957082014-02-05T16:43:57.953-08:002014-02-05T16:43:57.953-08:00Well, I'll say this, parts of our glorious ser...Well, I'll say this, parts of our glorious service regard history as beginning in 1947.<br /><br />History lessons at NCO Leadership School (Yokota AB) were outstanding.<br /><br />History lessons at NCO Academy (Keesler AFB) history were okay, a little weak on anything other than enlisted guys.<br /><br />History lessons at OTS (at Medina Annex) were abysmal and sometimes completely wrong.<br /><br />A mixed bag in my experience. In the early '80s there was a thing called Project Warrior which (IIRC) was a move to convince us blue-suiters that the Air Force really was part of the military and not just a 9 to 5 job. You can check this <a href="http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1982/August%201982/0882warrior.aspx" rel="nofollow"><b>link</b></a> for details. It kinda petered out in the '90s for what I would call a sheer lack of interest. And I was in a position to know.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-66099623156518038532014-02-05T16:31:41.909-08:002014-02-05T16:31:41.909-08:00I have got to remember to get copies Ras' book...I have got to remember to get copies Ras' books. The difference between the two types you mention can be deadly!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-20470533699500807062014-02-05T16:10:25.332-08:002014-02-05T16:10:25.332-08:00According to Ras' first book, even the US had ...According to Ras' first book, even the US had a lot of bomber (and other non-fighter types) who learned the hard way the difference between a fighter pilot and a pilot who flies a fighter.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-77624136583776968422014-02-05T16:06:46.687-08:002014-02-05T16:06:46.687-08:00(As time passes, I realize that there are many Ame...<i>(As time passes, I realize that there are many Americans, including those wearing Air Force blue, who have no idea who Eddie Rickenbacker was. But again, I digress.)</i><br /><br />And that is a crying shame but I know it to be fact, from personal experience. One of the best parts of my career was attending the ADCOM NCO Academy, which had a concentration of Air Force "Military Studies," which focused on our history. There's much to be said about honoring our past and I'll leave it go at that.Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05319116022465066060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-8310717154027877032014-02-05T13:58:32.077-08:002014-02-05T13:58:32.077-08:00Well, he did stick around to make sure his wingie ...Well, he did stick around to make sure his wingie had a good 'chute.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-1863070595382871422014-02-05T13:41:43.306-08:002014-02-05T13:41:43.306-08:00Well, maybe he was talking in a more final meaning...Well, maybe he was talking in a more final meaning for "lost". Still 1400+combat missions and only one shoot down is pretty darn good.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-91230104674426085902014-02-05T10:57:37.269-08:002014-02-05T10:57:37.269-08:00In Toliver and Constable's bio of Hartmann (Th...In Toliver and Constable's bio of Hartmann (<em>The Blond Knight of Germany</em>) I recall reading that Hartmann wouldn't pull the trigger until his opponent "filled the windscreen". That is close!<br /><br />And yes, you do like to get in close, don't you?<br /><br />As to never losing a wingman, almost, but not quite -<br /><br /><em>It is often said that Hartmann was more proud of the fact that he had never lost a wingman in combat than he was about his number of kills; however, he did have at least one shot down. Major Günther Capito had joined the unit in the spring of 1943. Capito was a former bomber pilot who had retrained on fighters. After scoring his fifth victory, Capito asked to be Hartmann's wingman. Hartmann refused initially, believing Capito was insufficiently trained on Messerschmitts. On their first mission together, they were engaged by P-39 Airacobras:<br /><br />I called to him to turn hard opposite, so I could sandwich the Red fighters, but in his standard-rate bomber turn he got hit. I saw the whole thing and ordered him to dive and bail out immediately. To my intense relief I saw him leave the aircraft and his parachute blossom. I was happy to get this Airacobra, but I was mad at myself for not harkening to my intuition not to fly with Günther Capito.</em><br /><br />Not that there's anything wrong with being a bomber pilot. /snarkOldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-74505071729457091552014-02-05T10:43:40.456-08:002014-02-05T10:43:40.456-08:00Oddly enough I knew a LOT about Captain Eddie'...Oddly enough I knew a LOT about Captain Eddie's WWI experiences but didn't learn of his survival story until years later. He was one brave guy!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-53873018197987358162014-02-05T10:40:18.584-08:002014-02-05T10:40:18.584-08:00Two things that I've learned about him. First...Two things that I've learned about him. First, his most proud aerial accomplishment was not the 352 kills, but rather that he never lost a wingman. And second that he rarely shot from outside 50 meters. I remember the first time I shot the dart in the F-15 with the Radar Predicting Impact Point gunsite. I shot at about 1000' (minimum allowable range) and had the dart explode. Before I could even blink, I was through the debris, thankfully intact. So, 50 meters explains a lot about why he crash landed 14 times as well as his skill and courage in getting that close.<br />AND, in anticipation of your response, yes, I seemed to have a propensity for flying through frag patterns!juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-15574291945129741822014-02-05T10:39:36.402-08:002014-02-05T10:39:36.402-08:00I wasn't and airman and I know who Eddie Ricke...I wasn't and airman and I know who Eddie Rickenbacker was.<br />But I have to admit I know because I read his survival story and didn't know about the Medal of Honor or his piloting prowess until later. (not necessarily your) Uncle Skiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02705753220273516841noreply@blogger.com