tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post5987215949367303883..comments2024-03-28T13:23:25.055-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: ...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.OldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-14104937715132877072016-08-31T16:52:44.148-07:002016-08-31T16:52:44.148-07:00Interesting that he was separated after the Articl...Interesting that he was separated after the Article 32 hearing. Maybe it was one of those cases where if he went to court martial he might get off, or not. So they offered him an admin discharge, which are typically honorable. I think you need to be actually court martialed and found guilty to get bad paper. That's my guess anyway. The major didn't want to roll the dice, can't say I blame him.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-18593764333529006532016-08-31T14:00:16.759-07:002016-08-31T14:00:16.759-07:00Sorry, ****O-4!!!Sorry, ****O-4!!!virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-74333264769358973392016-08-31T13:57:59.806-07:002016-08-31T13:57:59.806-07:00The reason I asked, sarge, is that we had a guy in...The reason I asked, sarge, is that we had a guy in our Wing (O-6) in the UK that was given an ART 32 and separated from the service but yet still given an honorable discharge. I thought: "Gee, if his service was honorable on what basis were they giving him an administrative discharge?" Of course he got seriously on the wrong side of the Wing Co and I guess that's how the big kids handle such little <i>cont're temps.</i>virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-52090180428561203222016-08-31T08:10:41.334-07:002016-08-31T08:10:41.334-07:00Yes, it is.Yes, it is.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-23534477094286213332016-08-31T08:10:24.201-07:002016-08-31T08:10:24.201-07:00Article 32 hearings are for everyone Virgil, in fa...Article 32 hearings are for everyone Virgil, in fact according to <em>10 U.S. Code § 832 - Art. 32. Preliminary hearing -<br /><br />(a)Preliminary Hearing Required.—<br /><br />(1) No charge or specification may be referred to a general court-martial for trial until completion of a preliminary hearing, unless such hearing is waived by the accused.</em><br /><br />Article 32 is an investigation and not one of the punitive articles, which are Articles 77 through 134 (inclusive). <a href="http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm" rel="nofollow"><b>Here's</b></a> a good reference on the UCMJ.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-33645248930773072812016-08-31T07:46:58.099-07:002016-08-31T07:46:58.099-07:00Why yes I was, and fined as well. To the tune of $...Why yes I was, and fined as well. To the tune of $750 as I recall, and that was a lot back in the old days!PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-1453618508634865682016-08-30T15:21:09.129-07:002016-08-30T15:21:09.129-07:00It's good to see vx is still with us.
Paul L....It's good to see vx is still with us.<br /><br />Paul L. QuandtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-48794860718199869912016-08-30T14:51:37.303-07:002016-08-30T14:51:37.303-07:00Thanks. Finally got around to reading your Monday...Thanks. Finally got around to reading your Monday post by the way. Love the small town parades!Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-1089236604358725692016-08-30T14:41:19.786-07:002016-08-30T14:41:19.786-07:00Hey, Vx, I get it. His crimes were minor, and nobo...Hey, Vx, I get it. His crimes were minor, and nobody was calling him a predator, just a lousy Chief (then AO2). Even if they were minor, a Chief can't be screwing the youngest sailors. The one who testified in his defense was very young and naive, and didn't understand why it was wrong. I think she did more than just visit his house, but that didn't come up. As far as women in the Navy, that boat has sailed.Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-73250268906438625712016-08-30T14:35:24.910-07:002016-08-30T14:35:24.910-07:00Were you a lesser-paid Sailor as a result? You ob...Were you a lesser-paid Sailor as a result? You obviously recovered well!Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-63669754979349087392016-08-30T11:11:16.618-07:002016-08-30T11:11:16.618-07:00And don't EVEN get me started about THAT guy.....And don't EVEN get me started about THAT guy..virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-82347712132874141372016-08-30T11:09:52.980-07:002016-08-30T11:09:52.980-07:00Quite possibly. I remember the case well, but the ...Quite possibly. I remember the case well, but the administrative details are less vivid. I don't think we were willing to boot him out without his retirement because, while wrong, the sex which we weren't sure happened, was consensual and they willingly went to his house, if it happened. The rest was just really bad behavior, not rape, no grabbing, forced kisses, etc. Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54183098479252127132016-08-30T11:08:53.098-07:002016-08-30T11:08:53.098-07:00BTW Sarge. Are Art 32 proceedings only for officer...BTW Sarge. Are Art 32 proceedings only for officers or do they apply to enlisted as well? I seem to remember reading that Bergdahl was being charged under Art 32.. Can you enlighten me?virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54373311743421087772016-08-30T10:58:18.485-07:002016-08-30T10:58:18.485-07:00Lets see: "PC masters," "sexual pre...Lets see: "PC masters," "sexual predators" "are vital" "have a wife"...spell-check is my friend--I should visit her more..virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-79100150797937309362016-08-30T10:53:16.205-07:002016-08-30T10:53:16.205-07:00I'm sorry, but I'm just too "old scho...I'm sorry, but I'm just too "old school" to buy into all this "neo-prohibitionist," "seual predator" PC BS. Taking the last first we wouldn't even HAVE any "he said, she said" problems if we recognized the immutable facts of human biology and kept women out of the force--especially as with such a reduced force there is ABSOLUTELY no reason they ae vital to MANpower needs. We were just buying trouble with that one move. FAR better the old Army DI's instruction to his charges:"If the Army had wanted ya to have a wie, they'd have issued ya one." Women and all the domestic concerns they bring in their train are a distraction and logistical problem and only serve to degrade over-all fighting effectiveness. There is not A SINGLE STUDY EXTANT which proves that they increase fighting effectiveness in ANY WAY. Quite the contrary.<br /><br />DUIs and alcohol? The roommate of one of my best friends had to be driven to graduation ceremony to get his wings in '66 because he had TWO (2-count 'em) DUIs--one on base by the APs and one off base by the civilian cops. But the big kids needed cannon fodder, right? so off he flew into the wild blue, to do his 100 North as a highly decorated F-4 driver (15+ air medals, 7 DFCs and 2 Silver stars in vietnam alone.***) and eventually retire after almost 28 yrs as an O-6. Look what the AF would have lost if they had denied him is wings over those two youthful duis. I call BS on it all. The armed services are becoming nothing but a collection of feminized prigs afraid of their own shadows and their PS masters. I mean, we ALL know why Robin Olds only got one Star, don't we? Just not the garrison soldier when the services' political stars were re-aligned <br /><br /><br />++ the standard awards were an air medal for ever 10 msns north (the common saying on completion of another "go" was "well, another 1/10th of an air medal" lol ) and a DFC for every 15 msns North. Silver Stars were, needless to say single msn awards, but there were often single msn DFCs and air medals awarded as well. virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-4954558532291335532016-08-30T10:41:46.217-07:002016-08-30T10:41:46.217-07:00Great post, Tuna. Sounds like justice was served....Great post, Tuna. Sounds like justice was served.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-28344949809891801402016-08-30T08:48:40.382-07:002016-08-30T08:48:40.382-07:00Kinda funny, but going to mast was one of the scar...Kinda funny, but going to mast was one of the scariest, hardest, and best things that ever happened to me. The actual charge was UA, for being 15 minutes late. But the real charge was for being a self-absorbed @$$hole who thought he was just pretty firetrucking special and way too cool for school. Joe Dog fixed me right up! I never really thought it all the way through until long after the fact, but the Skipper really demonstrated "Ship, Shipmate, Self" to me that day. He was a busy man, running a squadron and being the greatest Fighter Pilot of all time, and he didn't have to bother with the peons. But he (and a lot of other busy folks in the squadron) took the time to really think about what was really for the navy and the command and for the idiot sailor, and applied the correctly sized wrench to the nut. Here I thought I was serving them, but all of those busy folks turned the tables and served me. When they didn't have to. At least not by the letter of regulation. That's what the navy justice system can be, and often was back in my day.<br /><br />You might enjoy John G. Hemry's JAG in Space series. Hemry was a plank owner JO in Spruance (DD-963) bitd.<br /><br />http://www.jack-campbell.com/_series/jag_in_space/jag_intro.htmPrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-18093492871603570472016-08-30T08:36:52.904-07:002016-08-30T08:36:52.904-07:00Military courts have a distinct advantage ...and p...Military courts have a distinct advantage ...and possibly a bias ...over civilian juries in that they're already more familiar with the UCMJ and the regulations that govern personnel.<br />Still, sitting in judgement can't be comfortable when the slightest doubt creeps in.<br />That 20/20 hindsight had to be a relief.(not necessarily your) Uncle Skiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02705753220273516841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-17519768382640232642016-08-30T07:46:10.339-07:002016-08-30T07:46:10.339-07:00Great post Tuna. Sitting in judgement on a fellow ...Great post Tuna. Sitting in judgement on a fellow human being is tough, when it's a fellow sailor (airmen, soldier...) is even tougher I would imagine. But I agree with Ron, Senior Chief "Lothario" should have received a BCD. Perhaps your's was a Summary court? A Special can indeed grant the evil-doers bad paper.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-12768898149947418392016-08-30T07:40:41.294-07:002016-08-30T07:40:41.294-07:00I fixed that for you Tuna, as per your request.I fixed that for you Tuna, as per your request.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-71597016620635767742016-08-30T07:39:03.642-07:002016-08-30T07:39:03.642-07:00Summary court-martial
The maximum punishment at a ...<em>Summary court-martial<br />The maximum punishment at a summary court-martial varies with the accused's paygrade. If the accused is in the pay grade of E-4 or below, he or she can be sentenced to 30 days of confinement, reduction to pay grade E-1, or restriction for 60 days. Punishments for service members in paygrades E-5 and higher are similar, except that they can only be reduced one paygrade and cannot be confined.<br /><br />Special court-martial<br />A special court-martial sentence is limited to no more than forfeiture of two-thirds basic pay per month for one year, and additionally for enlisted personnel, one year confinement (or a lesser amount if the offenses have a lower maximum), and/or a bad-conduct discharge.<br /><br />General court-martial<br /> In a general court-martial, the maximum punishment is that set for each offense under the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM), and may include death (for certain offenses), confinement, a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge for enlisted personnel, a dismissal for officers, or a number of other forms of punishment. A general court-martial is the only forum that may adjudge a sentence to death.</em>OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-24620267678963365392016-08-30T06:21:15.726-07:002016-08-30T06:21:15.726-07:00We had a role in the sentencing. Any special court...We had a role in the sentencing. Any special court-martial we can not jail him and nor could we bust him down to an E-1. I believe the charge only allowed for a smaller reduction in rank. I will have to ask a JAG.Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-29864336028983369472016-08-30T06:18:23.151-07:002016-08-30T06:18:23.151-07:00Yes, that's what happens when you try to finis...Yes, that's what happens when you try to finish the post before you leave for work. I saw that Sarge had not posted something today yet so I finished it quickly. I will probably update itTunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-48927908171477503732016-08-30T06:10:27.308-07:002016-08-30T06:10:27.308-07:00Guess I do not get it. So the guy could continue ...Guess I do not get it. So the guy could continue his predations as an E-5 (still a powerful position)?Ron Snyderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217389199007968254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-11954292082772841212016-08-30T05:45:03.508-07:002016-08-30T05:45:03.508-07:00Senior Chief = E-8
http://www.goatlocker.org/reso...Senior Chief = E-8<br /><br />http://www.goatlocker.org/resources/cpo/history/superchiefs.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com