tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post6841998044431342986..comments2024-03-28T15:33:37.338-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: The Second American RevolutionOldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54177990618503803052016-05-26T17:57:14.888-07:002016-05-26T17:57:14.888-07:00I will concede the points.
I believe much the sam...I will concede the points.<br /><br />I believe much the same myself. I do have issues with the Federal Government meddling in the affairs of the individual states. More so these days than in the 19th Century.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-41041695418361453592016-05-26T17:15:36.565-07:002016-05-26T17:15:36.565-07:00It's completely wrong to say that Fort Sumter ...It's completely wrong to say that Fort Sumter and other Federal property belonged to the states. The Federal government cedes control of land to the states and vice versa as time goes by. The Confederates couldn't unilaterally claim that property after giving up control, no matter where it was, unless it was being used to attack them, which it was not. <br /><br />And the Confederacy WAS "the wrong side." All you have to do is to look at several states' secession proclamations, and you'll see over and over why this war was fought: slavery. While Lincoln in the beginning was smart enough to wrap the war in the garb of "Union," both sides know then and now that without slavery it would never have happened. Bruce Brewshttps://www.facebook.com/bruce.brews.5noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-73600365773989546972016-05-21T08:42:09.625-07:002016-05-21T08:42:09.625-07:00Those of us who study history understand why Beaur...Those of us who study history understand why Beauregard's guns fired.<br /><br />Those of us who have stood on that ground are still saddened by it. Charleston seems far too lovely a place for a war to break out, but it did. South Carolina was pushed too far. At that point politicians on both sides had let things go too far.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-50146477170598270882016-05-21T08:37:44.063-07:002016-05-21T08:37:44.063-07:00I still like it, but I know it's not from that...I still like it, but I know it's not from that period.<br /><br />You're last point is spot on though. We have to careful how we educate the masses, they've grown far too used to pablum.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-10464345823488371702016-05-21T07:08:23.300-07:002016-05-21T07:08:23.300-07:00Well said, both of you. At the time of the War of...Well said, both of you. At the time of the War of 1861 (my own way of referring to that conflict) most scholars of the Constitution, and most politicians, thought that secession was a legal, constitutional option. New England had threatened to leave the Union 3 or 4 times before 1860, no one said those states couldn't leave. <br /><br />Was it a smart thing to do? No. Even one of the texts used at West Point that said it was a constitutionally protected option said it was a pretty stupid thing to try.<br /><br />We all hear about "southern batteries firing on Ft. Sumter" but never seem to question WHY they did. Just one fine spring morning they, for no reason started blasting away. Well, it was a bit more involved than that. Lincoln, in his zeal "to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts" refused to remove federal troops from territory owned by SC, which had observed the law and peacefully left the Union. Lincoln not only refused to remove his troops but was attempting to reinforce them. Just a bit provocative.<br /><br />That the South could not win a war of any length was a foregone conclusion, it lacked not only the manufacturing resources and raw materials, but also the manpower. As one television hero said of a fictional conflict, "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."Joe Lovellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16892419601290744855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-11383054135808387212016-05-21T06:52:45.618-07:002016-05-21T06:52:45.618-07:00I hate that piece of music. For some reason Burns...I hate that piece of music. For some reason Burns ignored the wealth of music from the period to use a 1980s piece that was composed as a good night waltz for a fiddle camp. Now generations will think that a real piece from the War of 1861.Joe Lovellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16892419601290744855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-15045559913773784872016-05-20T10:02:25.015-07:002016-05-20T10:02:25.015-07:00Things could get, shall we say, "messy."...Things could get, shall we say, "messy."<br /><br />We should always remember that our first duty is to the Constitution, <b><em>not</em></b> to a bunch of raggedy-ass politicians!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-37013013864336656952016-05-20T09:34:12.519-07:002016-05-20T09:34:12.519-07:00That last line is one of my favorites from the Dec...That last line is one of my favorites from the Declaration. "...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government,..."<br /><br />Mr. Jefferson didn't mince words there. Yes, we have the right to throw off such a government. However, we have a duty to throw off such government, a requirement. This will not end well for the DC crowd, I'm afraid, if they keep on this course.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-85805238017525958872016-05-20T05:23:40.629-07:002016-05-20T05:23:40.629-07:00Thanks Shaun.Thanks Shaun.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-19185188102803676492016-05-20T04:37:47.992-07:002016-05-20T04:37:47.992-07:00You're doing yeoman's work from up there S...You're doing yeoman's work from up there Sarge. Good on ya.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54796435014396484022016-05-19T16:07:03.411-07:002016-05-19T16:07:03.411-07:00Amen.
(And well said!)Amen.<br /><br />(And well said!)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-27326049142957951552016-05-19T16:06:02.970-07:002016-05-19T16:06:02.970-07:00Thanks TB.
I like your Boy Scouts / Mafia analogy...Thanks TB.<br /><br />I like your Boy Scouts / Mafia analogy.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-43846352107909175272016-05-19T15:40:27.220-07:002016-05-19T15:40:27.220-07:00Sarge,
I've not spent much time south of the M...Sarge,<br />I've not spent much time south of the Mason-Dixon line. In 1980 the wife and I drove through on the way from NH to Dallas, TX . . . and then back. That was it. I got to know many, many Southerners during my years associated with the military. Never detected any hostile thoughts.<br />Wrote this blog piece back in 2009:<br /><br />http://jmawelsh.blogspot.com/2011/07/23-jun-09.html<br /><br />Wrote this a couple of weeks ago while just doodling around:<br /><br /><br />Once . . .<br /><br />We had each other's back<br /><br />What became of us?<br /><br />Why this racial divide?<br /><br />This is in no way part of the nation I held dear<br /><br />This is not the way living in America should be<br /><br />Where once we stood shoulder to shoulder<br /><br />A wedge has been driven<br /><br />Deep . . .<br /><br />By circumstance, mistrust, by ignorance<br /><br />What to do?<br /><br />What to do?<br /><br />We must retake the high ground . . .<br /><br />Ground that's been ceded to bigots<br /><br />With small minds in smaller heads<br /><br />Seeking to steer public thought<br /><br />Home from the war doesn't mean <br /><br />Free from the fight<br /><br />Come<br /><br />Raise up your buckler<br /><br />Don that steel helm<br /><br />There's a fight yet to win<br /><br />There's work to be done<br /><br />A nation in need.<br /><br />We were soldiers . . .<br /><br />Once<br /><br /><br />snuffynyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12843569994073955970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-84579545964272889522016-05-19T15:34:09.867-07:002016-05-19T15:34:09.867-07:00Thanks and thanks again, Sarge!
I've long main...Thanks and thanks again, Sarge!<br />I've long maintained that the War was a Second Revolution; indeed, many Confederate leaders framed it in just those terms. AFAIK, a civil war is a conflict in which 2 or more belligerents vie for control of a country's government. My forefathers didn't want Washington, D.C., except insofar as taking it would end the war, and give them their independence.<br />I've explained it to folks in terms of the Boy Scouts vs. the Mafia. You join the Scouts & decide to leave, you go on your way. You join the Mafia & decide to leave, you go, but their way--& it's fatal. No state would have ratified the Constitution if told they would have no option of leaving the confederation.<br />Leave the monuments alone. Remember Santayana's maxim.<br />--Tennessee BuddAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-42734952512847597932016-05-19T12:47:32.273-07:002016-05-19T12:47:32.273-07:00Santayana, aye.
The only way to understand the ac...Santayana, aye.<br /><br />The only way to understand the actions of historical figures is to understand the context of the times in which those actions occurred. Another problem manifesting itself in today's society is the wrong-headed belief that morality is relative.<br /><br />I concur with your assessment of the educational system. That, I believe, is no accident.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-82459431145435139752016-05-19T12:44:33.962-07:002016-05-19T12:44:33.962-07:00Re: a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursui...Re: <em>a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism</em><br /><br />You've been paying attention I see...<br /><br />I would prefer to see such a "throw off" occur at the ballot box, but...<br /><br />We shall see.<br /><br />(Excellent points all.)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-2022903151606190482016-05-19T12:44:02.107-07:002016-05-19T12:44:02.107-07:00It is one of my great regrets that during my lifet...It is one of my great regrets that during my lifetime I have watched the educational system in this country change dramatically. When I was young patriotism was in favor and American history was taught in every school. Students were required to have at least a functional knowledge of the historical perspective that led to the present. Today, it seems that the average college student or young American has no clue whatsoever about history. <br />They can recite, in depth, the amorous affairs of every singer, musician, television personality and Hollywood celebrity, but they probably can’t name more than two, or three, American presidents. They can’t name the nations that were our allies, or our enemies, in either World War. And most of them are totally illiterate concerning the Civil War.<br />But far too many of them are quick to condemn the actions of men one hundred and fifty years ago based on nothing more than their highly biased views of “what is right” in accordance with societal mores today. It is absolutely impossible to have any real understanding of history without fully understanding the historical and societal perspective of the period. <br />Much of the problem is caused by the failure of an education system that has taken on a decidedly leftward cant and which appears to demonize anyone, and anything, that doesn’t conform to the liberal agenda. Unfortunately, as George Santayana said “those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.”<br />Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15482185271178889753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-33646791731719676202016-05-19T12:17:08.690-07:002016-05-19T12:17:08.690-07:00They claim the Civil War ended the question of whe...They claim the Civil War ended the question of whether States have the right to secede, and that they do not.<br />They are wrong.<br /><br />While the South failed in their attempt due to military might, the fact remains that States DO have the right.<br />This right is proven true in to ways;<br /><br />1) The US Constitution is completely silent on the topic of State Secession. Thus according to the 10th Amendment... <br /><br />"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"...<br /><br />Shows that the States, and the people have the right if they so choose as no authority to determine that right is granted to the Federal government nor is it denied to the States or people.<br /><br /><br />2) Secession is what our very Declaration of Independence is all about. To wit;<br /><br />"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."<br /><br /><br />CG-23 Sailorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04344430385225473137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-36749367204227486632016-05-19T11:04:27.121-07:002016-05-19T11:04:27.121-07:00Well said.
There is much to learn from our histor...Well said.<br /><br />There is much to learn from our history. All aspects of it, not just the "winning" side.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-59450479681151328412016-05-19T11:02:48.318-07:002016-05-19T11:02:48.318-07:00Has there ever been a nation birthed with no blood...Has there ever been a nation birthed with no bloodshed involved?OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-32392077976897661312016-05-19T10:45:12.170-07:002016-05-19T10:45:12.170-07:00I would pray that YPKM would be right and leaving ...I would pray that YPKM would be right and leaving emotion out of it, probably would be. However, I think Sarge's option is more likely. juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-60200678440673821072016-05-19T10:41:35.784-07:002016-05-19T10:41:35.784-07:00What I have experienced is, that being a son of th...What I have experienced is, that being a son of the South, we are proud of our heritage, both as Rebels and Americans. Some of the most ferocious battle of the First Revolution were in the South I dare say that you will find no stronger belief and pride in America today than in the South. A quote I've used many times. "I am a Southerner by birth and a Rebel by choice. As I read and study, I pull for Lee, Jackson and Longstreet. As I live, I thank Grant, Lincoln, and Democracy." This by Richard "Shotgun" Weeks, a Vet of the US Air Force like yourself. Following his retirement he turned his love of history and heritage to a Civil War Blog( http://www.civilwarhome.com/ ) Sadly he passed away 3 years ago. The full quote puts it all in focus "I am not a reenactor, a Civil War expert, nor a historian, I'm just a simple old warrior who served in the uniform of this country's military for 22 years, in both peace and war, that loves to discuss all aspects of the late "Rebellion." It is my firm conviction that if one understands what caused the war, how the war was conducted, and the Reconstruction Years that followed, one will know what this country is about. I am a Southerner by birth and a Rebel by choice. As I read and study, I pull for Lee, Jackson and Longstreet. As I live, I thank Grant, Lincoln, and Democracy."SoCal Pir8https://www.blogger.com/profile/15601598407298523580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-75866132133564588412016-05-19T10:31:48.652-07:002016-05-19T10:31:48.652-07:00There would be a lot of bloodshed. We don't li...There would be a lot of bloodshed. We don't live in a vacuum. What a playground that would be for Daesh, China, Russia, and any number of other bad actors.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-40741780833841262022016-05-19T09:50:09.466-07:002016-05-19T09:50:09.466-07:00I think this time - the Feds would never kill peop...I think this time - the Feds would never kill people over states trying to leave [their words because secession is impossible according to the US Government] <br /><br />I think what they would do is tax them - pay your share of the federal debt and we will let you go and then trade heavily with you - and tax those imports as well. Can you imagine Barack Obama sending federal troops to 'reclaim' Texas? <br /><br />What I see happening is half the military [officers and enlisted] throwing their loyalty over to the new country - especially if they have ties to those states. . . . can you imagine if Pentagon lost Texas? Most of the nukes are there . . . . <br /><br />I don't see a lot of blood shed over it so long as they new nation is willing to pay some tribute. ...You probably know mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01763947725406197372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-41156015839503957482016-05-19T09:39:05.365-07:002016-05-19T09:39:05.365-07:00Well played.Well played.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.com