tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post86476667389111623..comments2024-03-28T05:35:03.643-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: The Friday Flyby - October 2014OldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-6373729434173348112014-10-20T05:03:30.627-07:002014-10-20T05:03:30.627-07:00That's an interesting question. I may need to ...That's an interesting question. I may need to chase that down.<br /><br />Thanks Cap'n.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-33981254047809330632014-10-19T21:55:06.056-07:002014-10-19T21:55:06.056-07:00Looking at the pix at the top called to mind a pos...Looking at the pix at the top called to mind a post of Buck's that referenced the fact that 100% of 20th Air Force were casualties. I wonder how many of the Stuka pilots survived the war. An excellent post.HMS Defianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10024721130102173694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-28138426521635140212014-10-18T10:30:41.562-07:002014-10-18T10:30:41.562-07:00That is one sweet view.That is one sweet view.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-90925766106608501922014-10-18T10:29:24.881-07:002014-10-18T10:29:24.881-07:00I need to find more material like this. The discus...I need to find more material like this. The discussion it sparked has been priceless. I'm glad we have a number of aircrew in the audience. (Not to mention having two of you "on staff" as it were.)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-89338118880013324242014-10-18T10:28:06.060-07:002014-10-18T10:28:06.060-07:00Roger that Fringe.Roger that Fringe.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-23576838934139440302014-10-18T10:27:48.135-07:002014-10-18T10:27:48.135-07:00Great stuff Marc, especially that website.
The bi...Great stuff Marc, especially that website.<br /><br />The bird slowing down very quickly probably cost a lot of Stuka crews their lives. Poor bastards didn't have much chance with enemy fighters to begin with.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-39922601841358976472014-10-17T19:37:46.031-07:002014-10-17T19:37:46.031-07:00Just as an FYI.
Corner velocity is defined as th...Just as an FYI. <br />Corner velocity is defined as the velocity (airspeed) at which you can turn the smallest turn with the fastest turn radius and meant your were pulling max g available for that airspeed. For an AT-38, corner velocity was 350k at 6g (which was what wikipedia said was the parameters for a Stuka). That diameter was 6000' or a radius of 3000'. 6 g and 350K is a constant, so it doesn't matter if it's an At-38 or a Wright Flyer, if your pulling 6 g at 350 k (or a Stuka), your turn radius is 3000'. Which meant, if you pickled at 350k at 1200', your aircraft was going to impact slightly long of the target, but was not going to fly away. Physics is an important subject and is one of those immutable laws of nature.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-75169961324734421892014-10-17T16:07:01.623-07:002014-10-17T16:07:01.623-07:00Yeah, that sounds more reasonable. ~250-275K and ...Yeah, that sounds more reasonable. ~250-275K and ~2100 feet with an "absolute" minimum release of ~1500. I bet it was still exciting as 500KG bombs (third section of his remarks) AKA 1100Lb bombs would have a frag pattern that would have to be contended with. And with the g of the pullout, the stuka would slow down very quickly, leaving it in that pattern for a longer period of time. Would take some brass ones to do this day after day.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-11019316787000437202014-10-17T15:09:40.353-07:002014-10-17T15:09:40.353-07:00Scroll down to the second statement by Gen Hozzel ...Scroll down to the second statement by Gen Hozzel and in that statement he says norm was 700m and lowest was 500m.<br /><br />http://www.allworldwars.com/Conversations-with-a-Stuka-Pilot-Paul-Werner-Hozzel.html<br />Marc C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05593002055776765614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-49725799785173977652014-10-17T14:37:58.013-07:002014-10-17T14:37:58.013-07:00Despite my skylarking about on the internet I stil...Despite my skylarking about on the internet I still got a lot of fence repaired. If I could read German I'd have been in serious trouble today.<br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B02W0Rs5-hblQkZHV0ZyaXR0UWM/view?usp=sharingPrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-60139992582296906072014-10-17T13:30:05.174-07:002014-10-17T13:30:05.174-07:00Check your PMs on FB. Might be able to extend the...Check your PMs on FB. Might be able to extend the joy.Fringehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15768960275550812122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-55393370874618897912014-10-17T10:07:20.180-07:002014-10-17T10:07:20.180-07:00Yeah, c'mon PA, those fences ain't going t...Yeah, c'mon PA, those fences ain't going to fix themselves!<br /><br />Glad you checked out Rudel's book, now I don't need to. OTOH, Fringe (see comment below) gave me some German technical references to peruse later on.<br /><br />We shall see. (Or perhaps I should say <em>wir werden sehen</em>...)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-59665278717947724082014-10-17T10:03:44.240-07:002014-10-17T10:03:44.240-07:00That's Huns as in F-100s. Re-reading my commen...That's Huns as in F-100s. Re-reading my comment I noted that one could get confused. At least I did.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-36445201821830971072014-10-17T10:01:51.556-07:002014-10-17T10:01:51.556-07:00Thanks Linda!Thanks Linda!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-43115984369927091942014-10-17T09:48:22.311-07:002014-10-17T09:48:22.311-07:00Fascinating post. Thanks so much for sharing.Fascinating post. Thanks so much for sharing.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12692170857496442623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-19521928567214100172014-10-17T09:43:26.834-07:002014-10-17T09:43:26.834-07:00Glad you liked it. No War Hoovers but still it'...Glad you liked it. No War Hoovers but still it's all good.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-46562403037661056842014-10-17T09:42:16.280-07:002014-10-17T09:42:16.280-07:00Same here. Had Huns mixing it up with Messerschmid...Same here. Had Huns mixing it up with Messerschmidts, World War I birds in formation with WWII birds.<br /><br />I know the look!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-46808215576561606392014-10-17T09:41:07.219-07:002014-10-17T09:41:07.219-07:00Ja, natürlich!
FWIW, you made my day!Ja, natürlich!<br /><br />FWIW, you made my day!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-27228940342118584572014-10-17T09:40:10.927-07:002014-10-17T09:40:10.927-07:00I should be out fixin' fence this morning! Ins...I should be out fixin' fence this morning! Instead I'm giving in to my craving for guilty pleasures.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-63849945287956746302014-10-17T09:38:39.921-07:002014-10-17T09:38:39.921-07:00Just re-reading part of Rudel's book. He doesn...Just re-reading part of Rudel's book. He doesn't mention a lot of technical data. The one time I see him mentioning speed in a dive he did note seeing 375 on the clock while disorientated in a dive through clouds. He pulled at 1200 feet by altimeter and hit the trees, though he recovered and returned to the airfield. His pull out could have been much lower than 1200 feet due to altimeter lag and there's no mention of the target elevation so who knows. The a/c was a writeoff. At a slight tangent, some of the SBD drivers at Midway reportedly pressed to 800 feet and recovered very close to the water but without any great drama. You're right about gravity but there's also terminal velocity to consider, that speed at which neither gravity nor thrust can overcome aerodynamic drag.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-41537250474000816172014-10-17T09:31:47.946-07:002014-10-17T09:31:47.946-07:00Very well done, Chris. I had a Stuka model as a c...Very well done, Chris. I had a Stuka model as a child, too. There was one helluva air battle goin' on on the ceiling of my bedroom when I was 13... think Testor's glue and thread.Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05319116022465066060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-53264720459863546822014-10-17T09:27:58.777-07:002014-10-17T09:27:58.777-07:00Spekenzie deutch?
http://www.avialogs.com/index.p...Spekenzie deutch?<br /><br />http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/germany/junkers/ju87stuka.htmlFringehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15768960275550812122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-57385733376480095312014-10-17T09:24:13.904-07:002014-10-17T09:24:13.904-07:00Now I have something to read gain on Fridays! Sti...Now I have something to read gain on Fridays! Still have something to look at- like Fishnet Friday, but reading is good too.Tunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930237104692982421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-86904207450120575372014-10-17T08:17:15.553-07:002014-10-17T08:17:15.553-07:00I need to do some more digging. Most of the data I...I need to do some more digging. Most of the data I've seen online for the Stuka seems to match what's in Wikipedia. The source cited in Wikipedia for that data is a World War II Luftwaffe source, which does not seem to be available online. Leastwise not with a rather cursory search.<br /><br />The dive speed may or may not be correct. Even with the dive brakes extended though, gravity still gets a vote. Then again, the figures Juvat cites (who is after all a pilot and has "been there done that") seems to indicate that the pull-out altitude seems pretty low.<br /><br />I'll have to see if I can find my copy of <em>Stuka Pilot</em> and see if Rudel himself addresses this topic.<br /><br />Damn, you guys have really piqued my interest in WWII dive bombing!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-2489303905673131602014-10-17T08:07:32.749-07:002014-10-17T08:07:32.749-07:00Heh. The day is still young. Lots of time for Murp...Heh. The day is still young. Lots of time for Murphy and Belle to get in trouble!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.com