tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post1258931036498217385..comments2024-03-29T19:21:06.990-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: Urban LegendsOldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-82084994078958030612016-08-23T21:04:20.379-07:002016-08-23T21:04:20.379-07:00Well, if the duck, which floats on water, is the s...Well, if the duck, which floats on water, is the symbol of the Cajun Navy, more power to ya! Well done! Never give up, Never surrender!juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-5323602516279715782016-08-22T15:21:29.981-07:002016-08-22T15:21:29.981-07:00Good story, and yeah cocks can fight, but in Louis...Good story, and yeah cocks can fight, but in Louisiana beware of the duck, it usually wins... :-) Get better Sarge! Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-16073938589326307072016-08-21T16:13:12.641-07:002016-08-21T16:13:12.641-07:00I'm going to defer to your wider experience, V...I'm going to defer to your wider experience, VX. Wasn't that your first fighter? <br /><br />:-)juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-24159792252236344362016-08-21T15:47:06.189-07:002016-08-21T15:47:06.189-07:00Alligators in New York City? Of course there are!...Alligators in New York City? Of course there are!juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-49071108928292719912016-08-21T14:09:56.285-07:002016-08-21T14:09:56.285-07:00Ditto here, Badger, iirc.Ditto here, Badger, iirc.virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-66681820992036266942016-08-21T14:04:04.430-07:002016-08-21T14:04:04.430-07:00I always had my doubts about that story, but many ...I always had my doubts about that story, but many GIs considered it amusing to retell, especially to "jeeps."<br /><br />Another tale was about the 417th TFS's name, the Red Dorqs (pronounced "dorks"), a unit at Holloman when I was there. The name was supposedly a translation from a French word for ghost, the squadron insignia being a ghost riding a bomb. Most of us just thought it was a sly reference to sexual matters, with the spelling offering plausible deniability. <br /><br />Our version held water mainly because there's no French word that even comes close to "dorq," about ghosts or not. I had a French-English dictionary left over from high school, and I looked at that thing several times trying to puzzle out some kind of explanation, but never did.<br /><br />But I KNOW that alligators live in the sewers of New York City. You can't splain that one away.Bruce Brewshttps://www.facebook.com/bruce.brews.5noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-18773745964083378882016-08-21T09:43:33.453-07:002016-08-21T09:43:33.453-07:00The story I was told about the ZZ was that it was ...The story I was told about the ZZ was that it was to honor our Japanese Hosts. The story was that ZZ was the flag that Admiral Somebody flew when he defeated the godless somebodies in a battle in the Tsushima straits. Again, the reality is somewhat different. According to <a href="http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=30779" rel="nofollow">this </a>comment on Snopes which cites a 404 error Kadena.af.mil site (how's that for crediblity?) <br /><i>The ZZ tailcode's origins date after the Korean War and have nothing to do with combat performance. In 1968, the Pacific Air Forces assigned a randomly generated letter to each of its 24 wings. The 18th Wing received "Z." Each flying squadron was assigned another randomly generated letter. The two letters were then combined and painted on the squadrons' respective aircraft. Within the 18th Wing, there was: "ZA" for the 12th Tactical Fighter Squadron; "ZG" for the 67th Tactical Fighter Squadron; "ZL" for the 44th Tactical Fighter Squadron; and "ZZ" for the 15th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron.<br /><br />y 1972, the Air Force reorganized the tailcode system and began to assign two-letter codes to each wing. The 18th Wing would have received "KA" for Kadena during this renaming, but the abbreviation was already in use by the 457th Tactical Airlift Wing in Vietnam. As an alternative, 18th Wing officials and the Pacific Air Forces commander requested the 15th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron's popular "ZZ" markings for the entire wing. In 1975, the 18th Wing officially received its ZZ tailcode designation."</i><br /><br />Glad to "meet" another 18th/8th alum!<br />"juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-1224467293333488912016-08-21T09:34:26.337-07:002016-08-21T09:34:26.337-07:00ThanksThanksjuvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-29543867732763542142016-08-21T09:34:12.744-07:002016-08-21T09:34:12.744-07:00That would have been impressive to watch! Only ra...That would have been impressive to watch! Only <a href="http://oldafsarge.blogspot.com/2015/02/train-like-you-fight.html" rel="nofollow">rarely</a> got to fly a clean F-4, but they do "get fast, fast".juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-75368176357156250832016-08-21T09:25:49.110-07:002016-08-21T09:25:49.110-07:00My brother spent 1993, I believe, at Kunsan as a W...My brother spent 1993, I believe, at Kunsan as a Weapon System Specialist (462!). He actually went there from Kadena and the 18th. I distinctly remember hearing the very story you just told, complete with the wires and everything. It explained the "ZZ" on the tail, too ("FF" stood for "First Fighter" Wing, and "ZZ" was for the last, until they redeem themselves). Very glad to hear it was all Poppy-(fighting)-cock! Thanks, Juvat!Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12033897909182292097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-86670341383926685512016-08-21T09:02:49.322-07:002016-08-21T09:02:49.322-07:00Paul Gillcrist was CAG and tells the story in his ...Paul Gillcrist was CAG and tells the story in his book "Feet Wet." The F-4's were clean with only 4k in the bag. The boat was pointed into five knots of offshore breeze, so directly at the beach. The first pair of Phantoms ignored Gillchrist's directive to make starboard clearing turns away from the city. Off the bow they cleaned 'em up and were doing 600 knots at 100 feet when they made 7 G port turns directly over the crowded beach, followed by neat aileron rolls. Unsurprisingly the crews spent some time in hack but became legends in their own time. Hell, they were navy combat fighter crews. Those are the kind of examples you think of when you're cold and hungry and exhausted and need to find a way to suck it up and drive on.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-21050665316529303302016-08-21T08:26:56.962-07:002016-08-21T08:26:56.962-07:00Thanks for the post, juvat. It's a goodn.
Pa...Thanks for the post, juvat. It's a goodn.<br /><br />Paul L. QuandtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-79005743864044752402016-08-21T07:52:34.946-07:002016-08-21T07:52:34.946-07:00A Vigilante and A-6 takeoff without any wind over ...A Vigilante and A-6 takeoff without any wind over the bow? I bet that was exciting to watch (provided you weren't in the cockpit)!juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-87068095737561524382016-08-21T07:50:38.706-07:002016-08-21T07:50:38.706-07:00Well, I'd say it was Air Superiority Blue, exc...Well, I'd say it was Air Superiority Blue, except for the bright yellow wings.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-71446860176341509202016-08-21T07:50:03.047-07:002016-08-21T07:50:03.047-07:00We studied Task Force Smith extensively at CGSC at...We studied Task Force Smith extensively at CGSC at Ft Leavenworth. Even with no ground combat experience, I could tell those guys had been handed an impossible task and were destined to fail. The bad news is, we seem to be doing the same things that led to Task Force Smith today. Those that fail to learn from history.....juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-89979508498846348522016-08-21T07:43:41.466-07:002016-08-21T07:43:41.466-07:00My Dad's very words to me as I departed for UP...My Dad's very words to me as I departed for UPT. "Never let the truth interfere with a good story." Words to live by.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-72107354286594116442016-08-21T07:42:14.544-07:002016-08-21T07:42:14.544-07:00Thanks.
One sees what one wants to see, I guess.Thanks.<br /><br />One sees what one wants to see, I guess.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-67275413702711059182016-08-21T07:41:46.075-07:002016-08-21T07:41:46.075-07:00Jealous shoe clerks, some of whom flew fighter air...Jealous shoe clerks, some of whom flew fighter aircraft.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-29128959911764433122016-08-21T07:26:12.736-07:002016-08-21T07:26:12.736-07:00Great post. I remember hearing about the chicken b...Great post. I remember hearing about the chicken bugout early in my career. It was often cited as a reason to be thankful you chose the navy.<br /><br />Interestingly, each USS Saratoga has been "The Fighting Cock" since the Battle of Plattsburgh on Lake Champlain in 1814. An opening shot from HMS Linnet smashed a poultry cage on Saratoga II, a 143-foot corvette, which irritated the gamecock it contained to no end. The cock flew into the rigging and crowed foul names at the British during the battle, which the Yankee Imperialist Pigs won.<br /><br />Saratoga VI, CV-60, had her own urban legend develop later. As rumor had it she sank on the hook off Piraeus, Greece in February, 1971, which earned her the moniker "Sinkin' Sara." She didn't actually sink, of course, but suffered a major flooding casualty in engineering that put her out of action for more than a month. Crazy rumors abound around the casualty, including cowardly ratings bugging out of the flooding compartment and allowing the ship to sink. The real story is less sensational regarding the flooding, but pretty neat regarding the way the airwing continued to meet her very real obligations. The morning after the casualty, when engineering had returned the boat to an even keel, they shot the entire airwing off while the ship was at anchor. F-4's, A-6's, A-7's, E-2's, S-2's and the Vigies. CVW-3 was a land based naval air force for more than a month but met all her commitments. One episode included the first-ever Bear intercept by A-7 Corsairs.<br /><br />The real deal is almost always better than the urban legend.<br /><br />Sending healing thoughts toward Little Rhody!PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-48016967236255123062016-08-21T07:04:12.328-07:002016-08-21T07:04:12.328-07:00I thought P-26s were a darker blue than that.I thought P-26s were a darker blue than that.SCOTTtheBADGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12859188068159799373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-88455198501788393462016-08-21T06:45:34.539-07:002016-08-21T06:45:34.539-07:00An "Urban Legend." We, in the Army, had ...An "Urban Legend." We, in the Army, had the same tale being told about the 1st Cavalry Division. They wore the yellow patch because they ran in the first days of conflict in Korea. They'd been assigned to Japan and not allowed to set foot back in the U.S. until they'd redeemed their honor. And so it goes . . .snuffynyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12843569994073955970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-35332620855612270642016-08-21T06:38:48.350-07:002016-08-21T06:38:48.350-07:00You have to remember the first rule: Never let the...You have to remember the first rule: Never let the truth ruin a great TINS story. If I had to fact check everything I would be struck dumb right after I uttered the words There I was....<br /><br />Hope you are feeling better Chris.<br />Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15482185271178889753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-32547387563755163812016-08-21T06:37:36.542-07:002016-08-21T06:37:36.542-07:00Very good post, which follows from good research. ...Very good post, which follows from good research. Thank you.<br /><br />But how could anyone see that fighting cock as a "surrendering chicken?"<br />Joe Lovellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16892419601290744855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-56559765327923435682016-08-21T06:12:02.978-07:002016-08-21T06:12:02.978-07:00I'm glad you cleared that up Juvat.
The fight...I'm glad you cleared that up Juvat.<br /><br />The fighting cock is a favorite of more than one aviation unit. (That legend was probably generated by the shoe clerks!)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.com