tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post2677737909848941620..comments2024-03-28T07:09:31.798-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: What The Heck Is That?OldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-26004630031689747752016-08-27T14:42:41.735-07:002016-08-27T14:42:41.735-07:00Engineers are good Bruce. Yes, someone on Facebook...Engineers are good Bruce. Yes, someone on Facebook thought it was an HF antenna (I may have got the HF part wrong), didn't make sense to me either.<br /><br />Tangents are good as well, I did not know that that radio wire you can see on (most?) WWII aircraft was an HF antenna. My Mom was always breaking those off on my model airplanes.<br /><br />Tangents are ALWAYS welcome here. I do them myself, often.<br /><br />:)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-25786345320192058052016-08-27T14:21:47.614-07:002016-08-27T14:21:47.614-07:00I did not chase the link; I am too unfamiliar with...I did not chase the link; I am too unfamiliar with WWII-era aircraft to hold an informed opinion, so I defer to those who do.<br /><br />I was simply confused as to the device mounted to the fuselage at the center of the roundel in the first picture. I understood someone thought it had something to do with HF equipment, which did not make sense to me. My reference to the TBD was to illustrate what I understood HF antennae to be. In short, I shot off on a tangent to the discussion.<br /><br />Guess I'm just another engineer you have to herd with whip, chair, and revolver . . . ;-)<br /><br />Bruce JonesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-6652943239933913012016-08-27T07:37:41.821-07:002016-08-27T07:37:41.821-07:00Brilliant work! All that's missing is a photo ...Brilliant work! All that's missing is a photo of the tow rig but we now have conclusive evidence that the USAAF did use the O-46 as a target tug.<br /><br />Thanks for the effort, well done!<br /><br />And that last sentence is a great caption for the original photo!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-69057366452338135762016-08-27T07:14:56.478-07:002016-08-27T07:14:56.478-07:00I couldn't let it go, so I kept looking. Didn&...I couldn't let it go, so I kept looking. Didn't see anything painted the same way, with the roundel in the correct spot. But then I found this page (in Russian):<br /><br />http://pro-samolet.ru/samolet-usa/64-samolet-razvedka-i-svjaz/792-observation-airplane-douglas-o-46a<br /><br />Check out this photo, in specific (crunch!):<br /><br />http://pro-samolet.ru/images/stories/ww2/usa/douglas-o-46a/douglas-o-46a_07.jpg<br /><br />So we have an O-46 with paint that matches the photo, a roundel that matches the photo, an antenna that matches the photo, and a venturi that matches the photo. Just missing that pesky target-towing rig, if that's what it is.<br /><br />Heck, even the RIVET PATTERN matches the photo, as you can see in this high-rez from the Air Force Museum restoration:<br /><br />http://media.defense.gov/2007/Mar/29/2000503220/-1/-1/0/070329-F-1234P-018.JPG<br /><br />I can't find anything useful about the target towing rig that might have been used, and what it may have looked like, but I was able to find out that at least one target towing squadron used them for SOMETHING. Because they crashed a couple of them.<br /><br />http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/dbasqdn.asp?squad=2+tow+target&Submit5=Go<br /><br />That doesn't prove anything, but it's interesting. And we don't actually know where and when the photo was taken - but we DO know he got his P47 training in Westover, Massachusetts. Which just so happens to be about FIFTEEN MILES AWAY from there 2 Tow Target operated.<br /><br />You want my opinion? Here's the hotshot P47 pilot fresh off a training run - posing with his "kill"!<br /><br />a bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871505359143633270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-65592515712723314222016-08-26T15:26:54.081-07:002016-08-26T15:26:54.081-07:00Interesting...Interesting...OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-20910417087381979742016-08-26T15:17:31.730-07:002016-08-26T15:17:31.730-07:00Another clue, and I don't think it's an O-...Another clue, and I don't think it's an O-46 due to size relationship between the pilot and the fuselage. No other picture I've seen shows a RAT in the same position on the Douglas. The suit he's wearing is typical of civilian instructor pilots in the early 40's. CHC in old NCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-84806889892984188212016-08-26T11:53:58.934-07:002016-08-26T11:53:58.934-07:00That photo is great. You're right about the si...That photo is great. You're right about the size.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-70532916135983622932016-08-26T09:45:19.022-07:002016-08-26T09:45:19.022-07:00It also looks to be the right size, in pictures wi...It also looks to be the right size, in pictures with ground crew present.<br /><br />http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/MK/13-Razv/USA_Douglas_O46_2.jpga bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871505359143633270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-55546595891431714512016-08-26T07:51:23.508-07:002016-08-26T07:51:23.508-07:00Fun to write, fun to read the comments.Fun to write, fun to read the comments.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-85061083815087666412016-08-26T07:51:00.179-07:002016-08-26T07:51:00.179-07:00Bruce, did you chase the link Al provided. I think...Bruce, did you chase the link Al provided. I think the aircraft in the opening photo is indeed an O-46. Whether it's a navigation trainer or target tug, all the big pieces seem to fit.<br /><br />Douglas O-46 it is.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-5095369933768914892016-08-26T06:09:16.330-07:002016-08-26T06:09:16.330-07:00I agree with Al on the HF antennas. I don't k...I agree with Al on the HF antennas. I don't know if the TBDs had HF radios, but if you look closely at the VT-2 photo, you can see a wire extending from the mount point at the top of the vertical stabilizer to the "stick" at the back end of the engine cowling. That wire would be the HF antenna.<br /><br />Bruce JonesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-67158773832105011752016-08-26T05:47:00.245-07:002016-08-26T05:47:00.245-07:00Now there's some great detective work.
Great ...Now there's some great detective work.<br /><br />Great post about great stuff.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-17030320119515716832016-08-25T23:23:03.695-07:002016-08-25T23:23:03.695-07:00Yup. I think you're right Al.Yup. I think you're right Al.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-3517370345851583562016-08-25T20:39:36.454-07:002016-08-25T20:39:36.454-07:00I think this is a locally modified aircraft and mo...I think this is a locally modified aircraft and most probably an O-46. If you were converting an observation aircraft to a navigation trainer you would need a second instrument panel and radios which requires more electrical power and more vacuum. There's not a lot of room on the accessory gearbox of those old round engines so adding more electrical generating capacity for com and nav radios is very difficult. An air driven generator would be a much easier mod and adding the instrument air venturi on the side would take a couple of hours. The antennas on the bottom are most likely ADF (Automatic Direction Finding) rather than HF which were quite long, 16-20ft or more. <br /><br />The reason I think it is an O-46 is the canopy rail below the fixed rear window and that between the rear windows the top is skinned over. Compare to this pic<br /><br />http://www.oocities.org/miller_field/o46.jpg<br /><br />Al_in_OttawaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-87011739568897847262016-08-25T15:54:16.826-07:002016-08-25T15:54:16.826-07:00Dang, never seen one of those before. Of course, t...Dang, never seen one of those before. Of course, there are many variants of that bird.<br /><br />Heard from Joe over at Aces of WW2, the Douglas O-46 looks like a good match in many details. Add the towing gear and I think that's our bird.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-28518694678947054852016-08-25T14:19:47.900-07:002016-08-25T14:19:47.900-07:00I don't know how to upload photos to s comment...I don't know how to upload photos to s comment, but I did see one P40 with a squared off window. <br /><br />http://www.warbirdalley.com/p40.htmDaddy Hawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01386749814126280114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-30280970540266805522016-08-25T13:07:03.631-07:002016-08-25T13:07:03.631-07:00Pretty much the same comment I had above on the P-...Pretty much the same comment I had above on the P-35. The P-40 had a rounded end to the rear glass. The one we're searching for is squared off.<br /><br />Still, I haven't looked at every P-40 variant.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-84324993072840866872016-08-25T13:05:26.025-07:002016-08-25T13:05:26.025-07:00Close, back windows aren't quite right, but cl...Close, back windows aren't quite right, but close. Not sure if they used the P-35 as a target tug. It is an intriguing possibility.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54046074799924661562016-08-25T12:54:39.001-07:002016-08-25T12:54:39.001-07:00My guess was a variant of the P40, but I can't...My guess was a variant of the P40, but I can't find any photos of one kitted out for target towing duties. Daddy Hawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01386749814126280114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-126792464222606802016-08-25T12:18:39.066-07:002016-08-25T12:18:39.066-07:00Maybe something from Seversky (Republic)? P-35?Maybe something from Seversky (Republic)? P-35?Well Seasoned Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16670165728759453075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-49828375353480177872016-08-25T09:21:41.673-07:002016-08-25T09:21:41.673-07:00At first it does look like the sheet metal shop ne...At first it does look like the sheet metal shop needs to do some repairs, it's the second and third glances which make ya say, "What the heck is that?"<br /><br />Oorah.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-68970232347437889162016-08-25T05:14:34.016-07:002016-08-25T05:14:34.016-07:00First glance it looks like he is standing next to ...First glance it looks like he is standing next to where something exited that side of the fuselage. Semper Fibobbyveehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12325399164490600336noreply@blogger.com