tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post3356966559599842605..comments2024-03-29T06:29:15.928-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: In the EastOldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-21660963203792085702019-11-07T08:48:45.549-08:002019-11-07T08:48:45.549-08:00Good to hear. 😉Good to hear. 😉OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-83056172077897681212019-11-07T06:46:08.345-08:002019-11-07T06:46:08.345-08:00Thanks gentlemen. "Do not become the mission ...Thanks gentlemen. "Do not become the mission while on the mission" is definitely a constant goal for me.Aaronhttp://sticks-stories-scotch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-78994388566742056612019-11-07T05:23:09.959-08:002019-11-07T05:23:09.959-08:00Well put Paweł, znakomity!Well put Paweł, <i>znakomity!</i>OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-22046050677269514862019-11-07T01:58:10.873-08:002019-11-07T01:58:10.873-08:00Pawel, Poland definitely had the misfortune to be ...Pawel, Poland definitely had the misfortune to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. A member of my athletics club in the early 70's was Polish. He and his family left in 1956 as they were persona non grata. He was also the first truly multi-lingual person I had met. French was used in his household routinely and he was fluent in German and Russian because, as he put it 'you're going to have to deal with them at some time in your life'. A lot of people forget that the old USSR and Russia think strategically and plan long term. They recruited 'agents of influence' while these agents were still at University and in their 20's knowing that some of these people would rise to positions of power in various institutions. Putin, as an ex-KGB operative thinks in the long term. As for your alternate scenarios, both are likely. Perhaps we are lucky things panned out as they did.<br />Retired<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-83862190720197114232019-11-07T00:53:55.524-08:002019-11-07T00:53:55.524-08:00Let me say it from the perspectiove of those who h...Let me say it from the perspectiove of those who had the extreme unluck of living between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany:<br />Yeah Western democracies could ahve sit this one out. But, this would probably mean one of much worse outcomes:<br />Scenario 1:<br />Germans unhindered by distracting Albion and Yankees, manage to get to Moscow, drop Students paras on Red Square (no Crete!) kill Stalin and Soviets devolve into rival warlords. By 1944 Germans have turned Europe into real Festung not paper one, they have access to Caucasus oil, and while not in position to invade UK, are almost impregnable to conventional warfare. Nukes are eventually used en masse in late 1940s, and if lucky Germans still dont have any. If unlucky, UK is a toast. And in nay case minor nuclear winter sets with untold millions suffering hunger as results. Oh and holocaust is finished to a T. In occupied Eastern Europe Poles and Yugoslvian nations line up next in queues to gas chambers.<br />Outcome 2: Soviets muddle thru, spilling even more blood but they crush Germans, overrun defenceless Europe and sit atop of conquered continent down to French coast and Italy with even more hostile attitude than in our timeline. Then they have all the technological and industrial potential of Europe at their dispossal. Marcel Dassault and Werner vo Braun end up in Gulags designing weapons for Soviets. <br />As much as I despise Soviets, they have traded our death sentence for lifetime prison from which we have eventually escaped. <br />Oh and one more thing, some people around the net have made sport of hating president Wilson, from his intervention in the WW1 to the harsh anti-communist crackdown 1918-20. But Soviets from the very start of their reign were sending infiltrators wide and far in hope of global revolution. Paweł Kasperekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17636249014878876718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-44635746366370406352019-11-06T18:24:01.736-08:002019-11-06T18:24:01.736-08:00Yes, I know the issue is more complex than that. ...Yes, I know the issue is more complex than that. But I do try to remind people how much damage the Soviet Union caused here in the USA before, during and after WWII. The Soviets were never ever our friends. They mistreated and imprisoned, for all intensive purposes our airmen who were forced to land there.<br /><br />And I can't forgive the administration at that time for supporting the useless Communist Chinese over the National Chinese.<br /><br />Not saying the Nazis were better than the Soviets. Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-82369562633735839892019-11-06T15:53:32.806-08:002019-11-06T15:53:32.806-08:00Sad to say, but yes.Sad to say, but yes.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-52876015578589004302019-11-06T15:12:29.707-08:002019-11-06T15:12:29.707-08:00The lucky ones died in the field, instantly. :(The lucky ones died in the field, instantly. :(Jim Shawleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05488328277463575274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-30341063690428649792019-11-06T13:40:24.933-08:002019-11-06T13:40:24.933-08:00Quite true, letting Britain go down was never an o...Quite true, letting Britain go down was never an option. Which could have happened had Schicklgruber not turned East.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54130266607546857092019-11-06T13:32:02.976-08:002019-11-06T13:32:02.976-08:00Always the what ifs.... At some stage Hitler and S...Always the what ifs.... At some stage Hitler and Stalin were going to clash. It was just a question of how and when. The rest is speculation. Such a clash would have inevitably involved the rest of the world at some point (In my opinion). Splendid isolation isn't an option and both sides are equally odious. Choose your sides please!<br />As for books I would also recommend 'The End' by Ian Kershaw and 'Armageddon' by Max Hastings as accounts of the last days of the Reich.<br />RetiredAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-22015955704487100812019-11-06T13:19:15.199-08:002019-11-06T13:19:15.199-08:00So yeah, don't fall out of the plane Aaron. &#...So yeah, don't fall out of the plane Aaron. 'Kay?OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-6712691279795296312019-11-06T13:18:22.794-08:002019-11-06T13:18:22.794-08:00You do know that things were a lot more complicate...You do know that things were a lot more complicated than that, right?<br /><br />A future post is brewing.<br /><br />Thanks for that, BTW.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-82033931468493066782019-11-06T13:01:51.551-08:002019-11-06T13:01:51.551-08:00Just because Hitler was stupid enough to head east...Just because Hitler was stupid enough to head east didn't give us reason to help the USSR. At most, we should have warily semi-cooperated, maybe. <br /><br />Helping England? Yes. France, those ungrateful bastiges? Yeah, okay. Belgium and The Neatherlands? Yes. Free Polish in England? Heck Yeah!!!<br /><br />We should have helped Finland in their two wars against the USSR.<br /><br />Full support of the National Chinese.<br /><br />Anyone left of center? Screw them. Let them die on the vine. <br /><br />By 1937 we knew how much damage the Soviet Communist/Socialist system could cause. We knew by 1939 how far they've infiltrated into our State Department, our Executive Branch, and how prevalent their spies were. They were never our friends, ever, never ever, not since we fought them from 1918 to 1920. Yeah, that's when we first knew the new 'Soviets' were scum and villeins.<br /><br />Support free nations fighting the Nazi scourge? Yep. Support Socialists who were fighting us while fighting the Nazis? Still don't see it. <br /><br />All that material, all those ships to transport the material, would have been better utilized by our side, or going to the Free French or better yet the Free Poles. Given to people who wanted freedom, not soviet slavery.Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-66450909054590914882019-11-06T12:51:38.152-08:002019-11-06T12:51:38.152-08:00Be careful. Endeavor to not become the practice d...Be careful. Endeavor to not become the practice dummy.Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-20536423665453700602019-11-06T11:59:53.185-08:002019-11-06T11:59:53.185-08:00For those who don't really grasp the scope of ...For those who don't really grasp the scope of the horror of those times, this book is a must read.<br /><br />Thanks for the link Stretch.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-12264278273125803082019-11-06T11:52:10.393-08:002019-11-06T11:52:10.393-08:00I can not recommend this book highly enough. Save...I can not recommend this book highly enough. Save for the summer. Not a book to be read on long winter nights.<br />Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder.<br />http://timothysnyder.org/books/bloodlandsStretchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-58436513281274568552019-11-06T10:39:28.342-08:002019-11-06T10:39:28.342-08:00Nylon12 - Don't concur.Nylon12 - Don't concur.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-67858253195631579262019-11-06T10:39:00.766-08:002019-11-06T10:39:00.766-08:00Without Hitler's invasion of Russia, things wo...Without Hitler's invasion of Russia, things would have been very different.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-74468569671352040632019-11-06T10:34:29.856-08:002019-11-06T10:34:29.856-08:00Post of the day Beans, you are awarded all the Int...Post of the day Beans, you are awarded all the InterNets!Nylon12noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-62194511054954451332019-11-06T09:46:41.481-08:002019-11-06T09:46:41.481-08:00Considering the evil perpetrated upon the world by...Considering the evil perpetrated upon the world by the USSR before WWII (like the penetration and virtual ownership of the US State Department and the beginning of the control over US colleges and universities)(and the Finnish war, and exporting trouble to all sorts of places (shades of things to come..) (oh, and helping the Nazis rearm, never forget that)(oh, and the partition of Poland before Germany invaded, really never forget that...) and the evil perpetrated upon the world by the USSR during WWII (internment of US forces within the USSR)(forced slavery of captured troops (mostly starting on their Eastern Front, but spreading to the Western Front once they started capturing people) (the systematic elimination of intellectuals and strong personalities in captured lands in order to Soviet the places) and the evil perpetrated upon the world by the USSR after WWII (I could go on, but my fingers would get tired)... I still think it would have been better to not ever aid them during WWII. <br /><br />Considering the only time they ever came to our 'assistance' in the Pacific was to make a land grab at the last second after we knocked Japan on it's collective ass, and considering we could have had Berlin, maybe all of Germany before the Soviets got there (and think how much better the world would have been after that, just in Olympic medals...) I really think Roosevelt was a complete dumb-posterior of a donkey for ever aiding or trying to enter into fair treaties with that murderous regime.<br /><br />Shoulda let two killers kill each other.<br /><br />Yeah, lots of civilians woulda died... over there. What's that phrase y'all used to use here? Not my circus, not my monkeys. We had enough material to show the Soviets exactly how another A-bomb or two would work, without them having to spy on us. A little direct demonstration on Moscow and some of their industrial places (which wouldn't have been as built up if we hadn't helped them with materials or food) and the world would have been a nicer place, especially if we managed to flashburn Stalin and the Politboro.<br /><br />Am I sorry for these bad thoughts? No. Especially as I peruse all the evils that 'Socialism' and 'Communism' spread throughout the world. Cuba, Central and South America, Africa, the Middle East, Europe, South Central Asia, Southeast Asia, China and here in the USA. We had a brief moment to smash that evil religion down from its strongest supporters and all we did was allow it to grow and fester. Now it's here. The fruit of all the evil bought by the USSR, showing in the control of our media, of our educational system, of our social services and as always our State Department, as we have how many candidates who openly espouse socialism and communism who wouldn't have if we had let the Eastern Front alone.<br /><br />What about all the photos of South Vietnamese tortured and murdered by Soviet-trained infiltrators? What about all those who died in the Hungary Uprisings. Who died in the Katyn Forest? Who died under Che and Castro? Under Stalin and his successors? Tortured, murdered, starved, beaten, ignored, stabbed in the back. And all those who died in Korea?<br /><br />The enemy of my enemy is only the enemy of my enemy. Just because my enemy is fighting them doesn't immediately give the enemy of my enemy a moral boost.Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-32789430510774513782019-11-06T09:28:07.034-08:002019-11-06T09:28:07.034-08:00Very true.Very true.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-74713981014784209462019-11-06T09:23:38.899-08:002019-11-06T09:23:38.899-08:00By 1939 (really pretty much within 2 years of taki...By 1939 (really pretty much within 2 years of taking over in,) Soviet Communism was very much what Stalin said it was. And he was not a nice man.Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-3488826556737672452019-11-06T08:27:20.422-08:002019-11-06T08:27:20.422-08:00The evil always label their enemies and attempt to...The evil always label their enemies and attempt to dehumanize them, it's a method as old as humanity itself.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-67028647161874423952019-11-06T08:21:53.699-08:002019-11-06T08:21:53.699-08:00My views were greatly influenced by my father (CBI...My views were greatly influenced by my father (CBI Theater) and my Uncle Ed (ETO, Aachen) and others who were Navy. There was one man I wanted to talk to but never got a chance. He had a Mitsubishi passenger van with a WA State Pearl Harbor Survivor license plate.<br /><br />There is evil, always a part of mankind, and organized evil. The common denominator seems to be labeling others that makes them seem as less than human. Example: Shillary's "Deplorables".Well Seasoned Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16670165728759453075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-15790595076885951002019-11-06T08:18:02.704-08:002019-11-06T08:18:02.704-08:00At the end of the war, uniformed enemy personal we...At the end of the war, uniformed enemy personal were placed in POW camps. In the West the soldiers were de-Nazified (we were looking for war criminals, we found quite a few), until a soldier was cleared, he stayed as a POW, behind bars if you will. In the East, the soldiers were marched east, to Siberia in many cases, where many perished from the elements, from Communist brutality, and from forced hard labor. Those who lived weren't repatriated for many years, as many as 11 years after the war.<br /><br />So in essence, the rank-and-file were kept behind bars for a very long time.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.com