tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post4732944915659424054..comments2024-03-29T04:11:03.395-07:00Comments on Chant du Départ: Warriors And SoldiersOldAFSargehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-66340886965504654742017-05-27T18:56:27.465-07:002017-05-27T18:56:27.465-07:00The sailors aboard Stark and Cole were definitely ...The sailors aboard Stark and Cole were definitely warriors.<br /><br />While I never met a Combat Controller, I did know a few ParaRescue types (always known as PJs) definitely warriors (and not a little nuts as well! And I mean that in a good way.)OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-43325935467414886802017-05-27T17:41:21.469-07:002017-05-27T17:41:21.469-07:00Great post OAFS, and during an appropriate time wh...Great post OAFS, and during an appropriate time while we honor those making the ultimate sacrifice. Our USAF does seem to attract some young potential warriors into a couple of disciplines, that of ParaRescue and Combat Controller. Certainly not a "shoe clerk" occupation, at least IMHO. Certainly, as Juvat and other have mentioned, no one knows a warrior until after the fact, MOS not withstanding. I think back to both the Stark and the Cole and am in awe of the young sailors with the warrior ethos who saved their ships. I just imagine that when those sailors enlisted the last thing they considered was being anything more than "just a sailor." regards, AlemasterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-23116880223662495622017-05-27T17:35:38.494-07:002017-05-27T17:35:38.494-07:00Won't ever forget that one Virgil.Won't ever forget that one Virgil.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-46392085105655905422017-05-27T16:54:37.951-07:002017-05-27T16:54:37.951-07:00Sadly Dave et all are right. Amen to the lack of w...Sadly Dave <i>et all</i> are right. Amen to the lack of warrior spirit in todays PC flag ranks. Whatever happened to <i>"The Mission of the USAF is to fly and fight and don't you forget it! </i> Anyone remember that one?virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14577165785872035948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-73014399673637650812017-05-27T15:31:20.573-07:002017-05-27T15:31:20.573-07:00It is sad.It is sad.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-16191672780202146822017-05-27T12:00:28.650-07:002017-05-27T12:00:28.650-07:00Sadly, I chime in, Amen.Sadly, I chime in, Amen.Dave's Daily Day Dreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17491764990082380190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-16284090889875625042017-05-27T11:22:03.712-07:002017-05-27T11:22:03.712-07:00Heh, two sets of foot gear, roger that.
Great sli...Heh, two sets of foot gear, roger that.<br /><br />Great slideshow!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-13985877369026483422017-05-27T10:10:53.242-07:002017-05-27T10:10:53.242-07:00Some of us wore both. At one time, my buddy and I ...Some of us wore both. At one time, my buddy and I were both majors, and both mustangs. We referred to ourselves as "M&M Enterprises" (with apologies to Joseph Heller).<br /><br />Two armies? Indeed. How many of us kept two sets of foot gear, one to set out for inspection, the other for duty?<br /><br />Here is truth about warriors---<br /><br />https://www.slideshare.net/jacko91/these-are-my-credentialsRHT447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-27146639662458262202017-05-27T08:20:55.700-07:002017-05-27T08:20:55.700-07:00I like it!I like it!OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-54616390141653261472017-05-27T08:20:37.394-07:002017-05-27T08:20:37.394-07:00Oh so true.Oh so true.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-81961354484273002742017-05-27T08:13:18.638-07:002017-05-27T08:13:18.638-07:00And a friend of mine likes to say that "Shoec...And a friend of mine likes to say that "Shoeclerks are excellent in making sure that Warriors get the shaft!"juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-49289020872362932252017-05-27T08:12:25.191-07:002017-05-27T08:12:25.191-07:00I dimly rememeber a quote about having 2 armies. ...I dimly rememeber a quote about having 2 armies. One that has beautiful uniforms, where every soldier is in step. One that marches in every parade and is a joy to behold. And another that no one sees, that fights the wars, and is lethal to the enemy. I understood the difference after reading that. I wish I knew the quote accurately....STxARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04588850178293194825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-48217712509693983032017-05-27T08:02:33.930-07:002017-05-27T08:02:33.930-07:00Great rant Shaun, I like it a lot, as I do most of...Great rant Shaun, I like it a lot, as I do most of your rants. :)<br /><br />I think your key point which helps to clarify in my own mind what I was going for is the bit about mission statements. It's wonderful that we have such things, but when the higher ups don't follow them, it is a knife in the gut.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-47376006147227461302017-05-27T08:00:15.964-07:002017-05-27T08:00:15.964-07:00That's the piece I was missing - "I also ...That's the piece I was missing - <em>"I also believe it can't be applied to anyone who hasn't been in combat and proven their worthiness in that crucible."</em> Also, one cannot proclaim oneself a warrior, that accolade must be bestowed by other warriors. If Robin Olds says someone is a warrior, make no mistake, they're a warrior.<br /><br />Good stuff Juvat, amen to the absolute lack of warrior spirit in the USAF flag ranks.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-2904360065759751192017-05-27T07:57:29.134-07:002017-05-27T07:57:29.134-07:00A friend of mine likes to say that without the sha...A friend of mine likes to say that without the shaft, a spear is just a knife.OldAFSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15935839956936191547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-73285164226840988002017-05-27T07:19:13.681-07:002017-05-27T07:19:13.681-07:00Your point about Roman discipline is well made. We...Your point about Roman discipline is well made. We can admire the warriors, and rightly so, and still appreciate the disciplined soldier who does their job under all circumstances. Surely the Romans had their share of warriors. As you pointed out, it was their discipline that made them dominant. A warrior of my acquaintance once told us the tip of the spear isn't of much use without a stout shaft. Well Seasoned Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16670165728759453075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-52973265161625693092017-05-27T06:31:57.935-07:002017-05-27T06:31:57.935-07:00Great post and a great topic Sarge.
Our English l...Great post and a great topic Sarge.<br /><br />Our English language is mutable and ever changing, just as we humans are mutable and ever changing. As with everything else in life, our linguistic chameleonosity is refreshing and challenging at the same time, commingling order and chaos, yin and yang.<br /><br />Definitions are a framework and they are vital, for language needs a framework. At the same time, the framework is a dead thing, and cannot respond to change. We humans constantly tinker with the framework, cutting away useless and rotten bits and replacing them with new and/or more useful (equally often LESS useful) bits. Over time, the framework changes. Again, yin and yang. We are humans, and we exist on the border between order and chaos. Were this not so, the two of us would still inhabit the Garden. Or our small primate society would still inhabit the trees of Africa.<br /><br />With the terms warrior and soldier, at least if we're talking about communicating particular definitions, it's less important what the dictionary says and more important that a) we know what we mean and b) we can articulate and share what we mean. You've done an excellent job of a and b here and that's a valuable service.<br /><br />I'm chasing down a didactic rabbit hole here because you've touched on an important point. The only way modern civilization can thrive and also protect the existence and liberty of the individual is through honest and unhindered communication. This is why free speech is so important; it is the rock-bottom foundation of civilized coexistence. Without it we are lost.<br /><br />Not that many years ago you could have a conversation with just about anyone and say "soldier means this, and warrior means that." To which your fellow conversationalist would likely say, "yes, but what about..." And the two of you would have a great gab and at the end of it each would have grown in understanding and profited in an expanded world view.<br /><br />That doesn't happen so much today. Most Americans have unthinkingly taken up the kit of the PC/SJW crowd and have abandoned coexistence in favor of attempted dominance. "Only my words and the definitions of my tribe matter, so shut up." In my experience, and to my sorrow, a great many veterans are prone to this behavior.<br /><br />Getting back to creeds and codes, they're the same as mission statements. They're wonderful when those who operate within their aegis walk the walk, but they're a knife in the guts of civilization when those people only talk the talk.<br /><br />Gah. Sorry about the rant.PrairieAdventurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466447251827774900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7684531976778247960.post-7774092989033069802017-05-27T06:17:51.603-07:002017-05-27T06:17:51.603-07:00I'm not in disagreement with what you say, but...I'm not in disagreement with what you say, but I view the terminology a bit differently. When I use the term "Warrior", I mean it as the highest compliment I can give to a member of the Military, "Fighter Pilot" being the next highest. Ed Rasimus, in one of his books and which I can't find right now, told of a time at the club (I think Nellis) when Robin Olds came up to him and lifted he and his compadre up by the waist and calling them "Warriors!". To have had that done to me, by him or Ed would have been the high point of my career. An affirmation of everything I aspired to be in the military. <br /><br />I also believe it can't be applied to anyone who hasn't been in combat and proven their worthiness in that crucible. <br /><br />That poses the conundrum. Rationally, no one should want to be involved in combat. However, there is the question in the back of my mind, "Would I have been able to hack it?" and there's no way to answer that question.<br /><br />There was a scene in the beginning of "The Pacific" where these two friends are going for their pre-enlistment physical. One passes and the other gets turned down for a heart murmur. That actor does a excellent job of displaying the realization that he will always be looked at by folks questioning his courage for not serving, even though through no fault of his own, coupled with a bit of relief knowing that he will survive the war.<br /><br />That's the conundrum.<br /><br />But, in my mind and in my use of the word, calling someone a warrior is the highest compliment I can give and meant with the deepest of respect. I don't use it often and I don't believe there is anyone currently in the general officer ranks of the United States Air Force that I would apply it to. <br /><br />And that's a pity.juvathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09096708575138552532noreply@blogger.com