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| VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. - Twenty-three Sailors lost their lives as seven U.S. Navy destroyers wrecked against the rocks near the Vandenberg shores here in 1923. This tragedy was later referred to as the Honda Point disaster. (U.S. Air Force photo) |
Seven of the squadron's ships were a complete loss, two were damaged. Only five escaped unscathed.
Twenty-three sailors lost their lives.
 |
| The seven wrecked destroyers on Honda point. The lost ships were: USS Delphy (DD-261) was the flagship in the column. She ran aground on the shore at 20 knots (37 km/h). After running aground, she sounded her siren. The siren alerted some of the later ships in the column, helping them avoid the tragedy. Three men died. Eugene Dooman, a State Department expert on Japan, who survived, was aboard as a guest of Captain Watson, whom he had met in Japan. USS S. P. Lee (DD-310) was following a few hundred yards behind. She saw the Delphy suddenly stop, and turned to port (left) in response. As a result, she ran aground on the coast. USS Young (DD-312) made no move to turn. She tore her hull open on submerged rocks, and the inrush of water capsized her onto her starboard side. Twenty men died. USS Woodbury (DD-309) turned to starboard, but struck an offshore rock. USS Nicholas (DD-311) turned to port and also hit a rock. USS Fuller (DD-297) stuck next to the Woodbury. USS Chauncey (DD-296) made an attempt to rescue sailors from the capsized Young. She ran aground. |
In Memoriam
Buchan, Ralph Kenneth Chief Pharmacist's Mate
Duncan, Earl Seaman 2 class
Grady, Everett William Fireman 2 class
Harrison, Earnest Carl Fireman 1 class
Jones Ernest Cabin Cook
Kirby, Edward Clinton Fireman 3 class
Kirk, Henry Thompson Fireman 3 class
Martin, James Tidwell Seaman 1 class
Morris, Wade Hampton Seaman 2 class
Overshiner, Gordon Jerome Seaman 2 class
Reddoch, Clitus Allen Radioman 1 class
Rogers, Leo Floyd Seaman 2 class
Salzer, Charles Alfred Coxswain
Skipper, Hugh Woodfan Seaman 2 class
Slimak, Joseph John Seaman 2 class
Taylor, Max H. Engineman 2 class
Torres, Enrique Cabin Steward
Van Schaack, Vern Russell Fireman 2 class
Young, John Fireman 2 class
Zakrzewski, August Fireman 2 class
From USS Delphy
Conway, James Wheaton H. Seaman 2 class
Dalida, Sofronio CC [Cabin Cook?]
Pearson, James Thomas Fireman 1 class
Until the sea shall give up her dead...
List of sources and other reading
- Navy Research Library
- US Naval Institute
- Vandenberg Air Force Base
- Destroyer History Foundation
- Wikipedia
I’d comment about paying attention to the radar guys, but, you know, radar wasn’t invented yet.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing that more lives weren’t lost.
That "only" 23 were lost is amazing. ("Only" in quotes for reasons you probably understand.)
DeleteYou can buy the annotated Tragedy at Honda, by Charles Lockwood on Kindle for .99 cents. An excellent book!
ReplyDeleteScott. Thank you, and the book is now on my Kindle.
DeleteGood info Scott!
DeleteWow John, that was quick!
DeleteSarge. A book recommendation from a regular commenter and a price of .99 cents means there was no measurable time interval from reading Scott's suggestion and pushing the buy button!
DeleteHahaha!
DeleteCharles Lockwood was the commander of the Submarine Force Pacific Fleet during WW2. He's almost always mentioned in books about Pacific submarines in WW2.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_A._Lockwood
- Victor
His name was still big back in the late '60s amongst the Navy types my dad hung out with.
DeleteHUZZAH!
DeleteStill a big name for those who know their naval history.
DeleteOh, most definitely. From the tales, you'd think he looked like Errol Flynn and did swashbuckling while standing on torpedoes in Tokyo Bay.
DeleteHe did, didn't he? :)
But of course...
DeleteThanks Sarge, good to post those names........ a quiet start to the day.........(sigh)
ReplyDeleteAye. We remember those who paid the price.
DeleteHey AFSarge;
ReplyDeleteDang, can you imagine the board of inquiry at this little incident? Lot of combat power got wiped out. I never heard of this one and it makes me wonder how many of those 4 stacker destroyers did we build? especially considering that we gave Great Britain 50 of them. Also it shows that navigation is very important, I hope the Modern U.S. Navy is realizing this lesson....again.
For a while NROTC stopped teaching midshipmen how to use a sextant, though my son's year group (2001) actually learned how to use it. I mean GPS, right? But if that fails? From what I understand, teaching the use of the sextant has returned.
DeleteThere were 273 four-stackers built of three nearly indistinguishable classes: Caldwell (6 ships), Wickes (111 ships) and Clemson (156 ships). See here.
At least when GPS fails, there are warning flags. When it is spoofed however....I made sure my LT's and junior Captains knew how to read a map and could navigate a low level without INS (the GPS of my day). Just because...
DeleteYup, when all else fails you should be able to do things the old-fashioned way. Murphy always has a vote.
DeleteI read recently that the U.S. Army has gone back to teaching ' charts and darts ' artillery. Electronics are fine and dandy until they disappear on you.
DeleteI had read many years ago about the DDs running aground. Thanks for reminding me about that tragedy.
Thanks for the post.
Paul L. Quandt
Electronics are fine until they're not, then if you don't know the way your grandfather did it, your screwed!
DeleteThe ship I sailed on all the time had the latest and greatest electronic navigation systems on board, yet all four of the Captains I sailed with got one of the sextants out daily and "Shot the Sun". I had a great time watching them use it and asking questions. Turns out the ship had not one, or two, sextants aboard, but THREE. And the Captains and First Mates used them daily.
DeleteThe Captains were all Olde Dudes (like us!), and one of them said doing a sextant-based nav check was very comforting to him.
Smart men!
DeleteIt is amazing to me that within the current generation of folks 30 and under, many do not know how to read a road map and almost all have never seen a topo map or aero/nautical chart, plus they don't know how to use a compass with said map/chart. Ive tried to teach that to my sons, but not sure if the lessons stuck.
DeletePLQ - The Army has suddenly realized that hacking of its secure comm and navigation systems. Almost like they've finally realized that the Red Chinese have access to our systems, since, well, Billy Jeff's era.
DeleteIt is always good to know the fundamentals before playing with the advanced stuff.
Curiously, in John Ringo's book "Gust Front," he deals with what would happen if our current system as of about 2005 or so was hacked by a major enemy (in this case, semi-intelligent aliens being run by even more alien aliens and some friendly aliens who are not so friendly.)
Legacy of the Aldenata - start with "A Hymn before Battle" which deals with the initial oh-its-aliens and then oh-shit-its-aliens and some of the folderol that that is involved in. "Gust Front" is just 10 minutes of setup and then one murderously long battle. Ringo likes introducing characters in order to get you to like them and then killing them off spectacularly. Heck, in his whole long series he's killing main characters up to the last drop of ink in his latest book, characters you've met, know, like and really want to survive - poof - gone. "Watch on the Rhine" is an especially interesting one, co-written with Tom Kratman, dealing with what would unified Germany do to prepare against alien invasion with the current political climate (full of watermelons, green on the outside, red on the inside) and what to do with certain veterans of WWII if you have the powers of rejuvenation. Lots of good historical research in the book regarding certain things, and not an apology for those certain things, but interesting treatment.
How did I get to wandering off so far, oh, yeah... Kind of hard to hack old-school nav and fire tables...
Tom - Concur and in reality, it's not that hard.
DeleteBeans - Cyber-wise, the Chinese are a HUGE threat,
DeleteThe film mentioned the results of the court martial at around the 10:28 point.
ReplyDelete"Captain Watson was relieved of his seniority while three other men were admonished. While he could have blamed a variety of factors for the disaster, Watson was commended for accepting full responsibility and was said to have set a great example for those under his command by allowing the blame to be set upon his shoulders."
This took a few seconds to process. Instead of being reduced in rank, or thrown out of the Navy for his role in the loss of seven vessels and the deaths of 23 sailors, he lost seniority and was commended. To say that the results of his court martial leaves a bad taste in my mouth would be quite the understatement.
I'd like to know more about Chief Boatswain's Mate Arthur Peterson.
On the subject of Navy shipwrecks, I suggest reading, "The Wreck of the Memphis" by Captain Edward L. Beach.
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/disasters-and-phenomena/tragedy-of-the-uss-memphis.html
I didn't find an ebook version.
Amazon has new and used copies for around $25.00.
https://smile.amazon.com/Wreck-Memphis-Classics-Naval-Literature/dp/1557500703/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10QSFTLG1735J&keywords=wreck+of+the+memphis&qid=1564580534&s=gateway&sprefix=the+wreck+of+the+memp%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-1
And this link has listings for quite a bit less.
https://www.biblio.com/the-wreck-of-the-memphis-by-beach-captain-edward-l/work/3016703
I read it years ago, bought a used copy, and I just got back from the basement book storage area with the book in my hand. Rereading will start soon.
Another great post.
I wonder what happened to the Lead Navigator? What does it mean "commended for accepting his Full Responsibility", he accepted that when he assumed command. Sounds like he was a Golden Boy. Ptui!
DeleteAmazing story, I note that Edward L. Beach, Sr. commanded USS Memphis. Father of the fellow who wrote that book, and of course a number of others, noted submarine commander and author, Capt. Edward L. Beach, Jr.
DeleteThe reason Captain Watson was kept was because he took full responsibility RIGHT AWAY for the complete mess-up, which actually at the state of navigation at the time, was possible. Outshore were also some really nasty rocks, so he was threading a very fat needle. Takes a real man to say "I was in command, so I am responsible."
DeleteUnlike the two Captains involved in our current Navy's rammings, who avoided responsibility, shirked responsibility, and were pretty much one of the major factors of both rammings. Those two knuckleheads should have been cashiered within 2 months of each incident, if not 2 days after.
juvat - Yeah, not sure what the Hell that means. "Hey, I effed up." "Good man, way to fess up."
DeleteThe more things change, the more the stay the same.
Beans - Still and all, he cost the Navy seven ships and 23 sailors. Which should have been mitigation in the punishment, not just losing seniority points. As in, "Here's your discharge. No, you don't get and no, you won't get prison time. Thank you for playing."
DeleteAnd yeah, what about that lead navigator?
Different times, and a much smaller pool of senior officers. Heck, back then there wasn't an admiral for every 10 people like today...
DeleteWell, yeah, there is that.
DeleteBeans, accepting responsibility these days won't get you anything. A minor rub up against a buoy will get you fired just as fast as a fatal collision. The USS McCain's CO plead guilty at his CM though.
DeleteHell, sending the wrong person an email can get you canned!
DeleteWell, the McCain's CO should have come right out and said it was his fault to begin with, not 6 months down the road.
DeleteGood captains subscribe to the "Women and Children First, and The Captain is the last off the ship, unless The Captain goes down with the ship" style of captaining.
Which is why you won't find many good captains captaining Italian cruise liners...
As to the pervasive "You're OUT!" attitude of today's Navy, maybe if there were less admirals and the ability to be a Captain for a looooooong time rather than flushing out good captains who would make bad admirals out of the system, well, okay, totally rework the Pentagon system...
Not to mention JOs not getting enough time to learn how to handle ships. If they don't learn it when they're young, then they never will.
DeleteWhen I was living at Vandenberg AFB in '68, I knew that 'Destroyer Point' existed and that some Navy destroyers ran aground there.
ReplyDeleteIn my laziness, it wasn't until last year that I read up on the Honda Point disaster. Once again, great minds thinking alike or something like that.
That section of the California coast is just chock full of ship-eating jagged coastlines with very few useful harbor locations for small boats. What few beaches are there are at the base of some really nasty cliffs.
Good post.
And here I thought you were going to talk about Big Girl's replacement.
I stumbled across the story while researching the USS Stewart story.
DeleteReplace Big Girl? Bite your tongue!
Mistakes were easier before GPS.
ReplyDeleteOh yes they were. Back in the day you really needed to be paying attention all of the time. The lead navigator that day screwed the pooch big time.
DeleteYet really spectacular mistakes are so much easier with GPS, Radar, Sat Nav, Inertial Nav and all the other systems the Modern Navy has access to but yet doesn't seem to know how to use, thus making spectacular mistakes...
DeleteThe more things change, the more they stay the same...
Like ANDREA DORIA, and STOCKHOLM, both ships thought the other would get out of the way.
DeleteBeans -Too true.
DeleteScott - Yeah, that went well.
DeleteSCOTTtB - all the automatic systems in the world won't stop something bad if nobody is in the wheelhouse and nobody has real responsibility for what happens on a watch. Seriously, of those wonderfully big cargo ships out there, a surprising number of them either have crew literally asleep at the helm or nobody at the helm at all except during times when the ships are close to port or in tight shipping lanes. Out in the great blue? Yeah... Maybe on an American flagged and crewed ship, if you can find one...
DeleteYup.
DeleteSalient point on GPS:
ReplyDelete"I've got GPS, so I know where I am within a meter"
"The guy that drew the chart of that channel didn't"
Good point.
DeleteA question in my mind: What were they doing running at 20 knots in the fog?
ReplyDeletePaul
Paul. I'm far enough along in the novel to answer that question.
DeleteThe engineering plants on the destroyers used a turbine arrangement that included a cruising turbine. If you used the cruising turbine you could get your speed up to around 20 knots, and use less fuel.
Quoting from "Tragedy at Honda," "The standard speed of twenty knots, which has been set for tomorrow's run to to San Diego, will crown our cruising turbines to the limit of their power."
The ships were making that speed as an engineering test and their fuel economy would factor into the competition for the Engineering "E" (Excellence) award.
Further explanation of typical steam driven combatant is found at the website of the USS Oklahoma City.
And the explanation includes a mention of the cruising turbines.
https://www.okieboat.com/Propulsion%20plant.html
I wondered the same Paul.
DeleteJohn, is it a novel?
DeleteMore information.
DeleteThe Fletcher Class seems to have a similar propulsion turbine arrangement.
From this article.
https://www.navyhistory.org/2013/07/life-on-a-fletcher-class-destroyer-1950s/
"There were two cross compounded geared steam turbine main engines. Each engine consisted of a high pressure (HP) and low pressure (LP) turbine set driving its associated propeller shaft through a double reduction gear. The rated output of each engine was 30,000 HP at a propeller speed of 395 RPM. The HP and LP turbines were connected in series with respect to steam flow and in parallel mechanically into the reduction gear. A smaller cruising turbine was mounted on the front end of the HP turbine. "
And the Sumner and Gearing classes had the same turbine arrangement.
If you look at the lower right corner of the drawing, you will see the cruising turbine.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/edz/interior/b-2%20up%20lev%20plan%20129.jpg
And a lot more photos of the Sumners in their "as built" configuration.
http://navsource.org/archives/05/interior.htm
Sarge. I downloaded the novel Scott suggested and I'm at the point just before the destroyers go on the rocks. As expected there's a lot of details in the novel.
Deletehttps://smile.amazon.com/Tragedy-Honda-Annotated-Charles-Lockwood-ebook/dp/B07MHH61BG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2UH5YT4P8ZZSY&keywords=tragedy+at+honda&qid=1564599322&s=gateway&sprefix=tragedy+at+hona%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-1
"crown our cruising turbines," should read, "crowd our ...."
DeleteI haven't found any way to copy and paste from an ebook, and that was my typing error.
John, a novel is a work of fiction, are you sure that book is a novel?
DeleteI didn't know that. Change my use of novel to non-fiction book.
DeleteI seem to remember that the current running from north to south rips rather fast along the coast there, so cruising at 20kph northish may have been the speed set to actually maintain a headway of 5-10kph.
DeleteI'm wondering why, with all that big beautiful ocean to the port side of them, they were anywhere near land to begin with.
First rule of fog is to get maneuvering room. If you can't get maneuvering room then slow the heck down. Or turn back.
The fogs around Vandenberg were epic to behold. Especially when an occasional missile lit the fog during a test.
John - Roger that. It's what I figured.
DeleteBeans - A number of bad decisions were made that day.
DeleteWhat a mess. I used to squint and squirm watching the last bit of "Thunderball", but that must've been a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteThere's a reason the USN calls the UCMJ "Rocks and Shoals"....
True dat.
DeleteThere's also the scenes right at the end of Patriot Games to make you want to pay attention when running at full speed on the briny near a coast.
DeleteYup, running at speed near the coast ain't a bright thing to do!
Delete