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Praetorium Honoris

Sunday, September 29, 2019

Flying your Freak Flag (it's safe for work, unless you are in California, or Massachussets, or New York, or New Jersey, or...)

First, I must apologize to my blogfather, blog brothers and blog sister, and to all you loyal readers. I, Beans, committed a blog sin (well, sin to me) in that elsewhere in the blogoverse, I used my rightly appointed blogname in a post that became, well, rather heated. Not too bad, but I promised to myself that I wouldn’t use my bloghandle elsewhere in any way that might bring negative feelings towards this blog. Forgive me, for I have sinned.

And that’s what this post is about. Like the joke I tell: How can you tell the difference between a Democrat’s and a Republican’s car? The Dem’s car is held together by bumperstickers, the Rep’s car has resale value. Get it? There’s a long-standing rule amongst the Bean household, instituted by Mrs. Andrew (for she is far wiser and smarter than me) that we would never put anything on our cars that might unhinge (further) the (already unhinged) leftists and idiots (sometimes, but not always, the same thing) and cause them to damage, due to their unhinginess, our modes of transportation.

That means… no clever phrased stickers (oh, like ‘One Big Arsed Mistake, America) especially about certain trigger points (Gun Control means Hitting Your Target) or stickers showing our political affiliation (what party or party’s candidate we support, just in case, yeah, right, up here, there is more than one candidate) or showing our membership in various civil rights organizations (hah, I won’t leave any clues, because if you can’t guess, you haven’t been reading my latest post) or any hobbies we have (I mean, if you can’t tell from the fact that there’s rattan polearms and shields strapped to the top of the van that I’m involved in weird stuff…)

We openly violated the rule when my lovely wife, Mrs. Andrew (for those at home not keeping score,) graduated from FSU (why FSU? Because the university in our home town was too snobbish to do on-line degrees, that’s why, so suck it Gator Nation) and we got a ‘FSU Alumni’ front vanity plate (because we in Florida only need one license plate, on the rear, it leaves the front spot open for all sorts of things.)

But, well, I’m reevaluating that position. Elsewhere, there has been much discussion on Open Carry LARPers (larper is a Live Action Role Playing person, basically, like, Star Trek re-enactors who play a scenario, or Ampgard who use foam swords and socks (spell balls) and other people like that.) who carry long guns openly in areas where they are allowed to. Specifically those Florida Carry people who showed up to the 2nd Open Carry Fishing Event (Okay, Florida has a ‘if you are fishing you may open carry’ law) over-carrying in order to prove a point. The point being that it’s legal to open carry while fishing (as I already said.) Why did they do this? Because the 1st Open Carry Fishing Event ended up with a bunch of LEOs who didn’t know the law freaking out because the open carriers were openly carrying pistols, rather than carrying them concealed. Who was freaked out? The Po-Po. Maybe a few ‘citizens’ who came from up north, but the very people who are entrusted to enforce the law! So Florida Carry said, basically, it’s the law, and went overboard at their second event in order to prove it.   In your Face!  Because it's the LAW!  And here's the law (hands pamphlet with correct FL statute outlined.)  Done all peacefully and with no malice, but done to 11 on a 10 scale because the first time they did it, the Dur-hur stupids freaked out (that being the police and local prosecutors.)(And much shame egg-yolk on their collective faces when faced with the actual law...)

And then there’s a picture at another blog, of 3 guys at a fast food joint, standing in line, clean, well dressed, two have pistols and one has a slung AR-ish type rifle over his shoulder and a pstol.




Does this scare you? Why? Essays due at end of class. You have 60 minutes and one bluebook each.
Prove with valid examples or you will fail. 
And extra-credit, does that AR make that guy's ass look fat?
from mcthag.blogspot.com/2019/09/which-is-scarier.html


What this resulted in was a bunch of pro-gun rights bloggers freaking out and calling the people who open carry basically anything from ‘stupid’ to ‘Enemy, REEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeee!’ (picture Donald Southerland from remake of ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers.’) 





 
Yeah, like that.  Who's more scary, the person being pointed at or the person pointing?
from a still of the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" from some stupid website that didn't cite the original source, and my head hurts so if you want a valid citation, I'll get to it after my stupid head stops hurting.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....


 

Why? Because they (the pro-gun rights bloggers) feel that people asserting their rights is bad for allowing us our rights, or something like that.

And, me, Beans, couldn’t keep my fat trap shut. Because, well, it’s me.  And my head hurts.  And the restraining bolt that OldAFSarge installed was removed by some yokel at a moisture harvesting farm...

Okay, here it goes.

There’s a saying, in reference to one’s right to have a speedy trial, that ‘Justice delayed is justice denied.’ That denying an accused person a speedy trial is denying them justice. See? Simple, huh? People have been set free because the prosecution can’t get their stuff together and get a trial set. Because, justice delayed is justice denied. Simple, right?

Basically it follows the concept of ‘Use it or lose it.’ A rather simple statement, right? Well… therein lies the problem.

In the gun world, there is a huge feeling of ‘don’t rock the boat, don’t do anything that will get us noticed, else we’ll lose our gun rights.’

What ‘gun rights’? You mean, actually, the few parts of the whole ‘Gun Rights’ issue that we still have? They aren’t gun rights anymore. If someone can say what you can and can’t do, it’s an allowance. Like the money mommy and daddy give the kiddy to put into his or her piggy bank. By law, that money belongs to mommy and daddy. Why, because mommy and daddy are allowing the kiddy to hold it for them (kinda, it's weird, but you get the point, right?)

We don’t have gun rights anymore. We have gun allowances. And every year, more and more of that allowance is being taken back by mommy and daddy (government, of all varieties, from local, to state, to federal, to international (yeah, some of the arms treaties we are involved in actually restrict our gun rights here, no, seriously)) from us kiddies. Sure, we’re getting bigger allowances in some places, but we’re losing the allowance quickly in others. (Just this week, the NY attorney general sent out letters to 80% lower manufacturers and sellers saying they are in violation of NY’s stupid ‘assault rifle’ rules. An 80% lower is basically the semi-machined blank, basically a somewhat refined chunk of material, that has no screw holes, or pin holes or, magazine hole or anything that would allow it to function as a valid gun part. It’s just a modern sculpture until a lot of work is done.  Accurately finishing the unfinished part actually is more difficult than it sounds, needing special tooling and tools for the average person to correctly finish as a useable lower.)

So the Government acts like our gun rights, as stated in the 2nd Amendment, that whole ‘Shall not be infringed’ thingy, is actually an allowance by the government to us stupid peasants.

Thus, well, open carrying might upset someone and we’ll lose our allowance to open carry (the gun people call it a right, it isn’t any more. It’s an allowance.) because it might upset someone.

Ooooooooo. Booga-Booba. The way they are acting,  an Open Carrier walking down the street is scarier than the group of wildings playing the knockout game.  Or scarier than the open use of drugs and needles everywhere and people overdosing in public.  Or scarier than people pooping and peeing in the street. Or illegal immigrants forcing their way in to our country and demanding we take care of them. Or illegals suing us in our own courts in order to stay in this country, and force us to pay them lots and lots of money. Or politicians and bureaucrats and government employees openly violating the laws of this country and their oaths of office. Or a whole country blackmailing an industry (kinda like, oh, Communist China forcing Hollyweird to be even more anti-American than they used to be.)

So. Does open carrying of a rifle or pistol, where it is legal to open carry, bother you? If so, why?

Because, well, to me, to deny a person the chance to open carry because it scares or bothers you, where it is legal to open carry, is to deny that person or persons their rights. Thus you have turned a right into an allowance. And you are mommy or daddy punishing the poor kid for doing something he is nominally allowed to do.

Follow that? No? Okay, if you’re butt-hurt because some Open Carry LARPer is open carrying because the law says it is legal to open carry but you don’t agree with the law and you see the open carrier as the problem, well, you’re wrong. You are the problem. Whether you are a leftist, treehugging, gender variable, radical vegan, or a supposed gun-rights author, you, if you deny a right, are the problem. Not the right. The right isn’t the problem. The problem is… You.

If you say you are for a right, yet you deny any aspect of that right, you really aren’t for that right. You are for an allowance.

The first step in getting a right acknowledged as a right, and not as an allowance, is to exercise that right, where it’s allowed.

Like not wearing a helmet or safety gear while riding a motorcycle.

Or wearing bondage gear openly.

Or wearing a Che! Shirt.

Or calling for impeachment just because your butt hurts.

Or supporting the Florida Gators.

Or… Open Carrying.

Just because it bothers you or it's terribly stupid (like supporting the Florida Gators) doesn’t mean it’s not legal.



Do I think open carry is good?  Well, yeah, done correctly.  I mean, there are just some places that a nice 3lb field howitzer won't be appropriate, like at a restaurant or a movie theater, just like that Martini-Henry isn't appropriate.  But a nice M1 Carbine?  Or an AR-M4gery?  Or a pistol?  Carried while not raising hell, while acting appropriately?  And as the law of the area allows?  Whatevs.  It donna fach me.  6" belt knife?  Tomahawk? A full set of Samurai swords including all the daggers and a No Dachi?  Whatever.  Just keep it to yourself, dude, and there isn't going to be an issue.

Seriously.  I have been around armed (with live, real weapons) people of all stripes for a good portion of my life.  And I have never seen someone use the live, real weapons for anything inappropriate.  Why?  Because the other people armed with weapons would enforce said unstated statute of acting appropriately, by force if need be.  So, to me, seeing someone dressed nice, wearing arms, doesn't bother me at all.  

Some mope with his pants around his knees and a gun shoved in his crotch screaming at me for being in the wrong section of town?  Yes, that bothers me.  And really makes me wish I could open carry, legally.  While I get out of that section of town.



So.  Back to the 'flying freak flag' thing, well, dang it.  I've been fudding as much as some of the gun-rights fuds have.  Why?  Because I haven't put the stickers on my car.  I don't wear pro-2A tshirts or hats.  I don't fly my freak flag in other people's faces.  And sometimes, dangit, the freak flag must fly.   Well, as long as Mrs. Andrew allows it.


Boy, this was a convoluted post, wasn't it?  Imagine what it's like inside my head 24/7/365/6!

40 comments:

  1. Great post, Beans. I think there's a big difference between "Can" and "Should". Carrying a rifle wnen it's not appropriate to the situation causes one to wonder if the carrier is not a leftist trying to cause an incident. I saw that situation at a Chipotle a year or so ago, in Austin. Those two liberal bat beacons led me to believe the carriers were not what they say.

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    1. Oh, there is a definite difference between "Can" and "Should" but in a situation where people are 'Reeeeeeeee-ing' about "Can," well, "Should" to shove it in their faces does sound... interesting. And, yeah, Austin. Maybe Austin needs more remembering that it is in Texas.

      Have a cattle drive.

      Have a big open air gun show.

      Monster truck rally.

      Huge old school rodeo with cattle branding.

      Giant BBQ and Texas Vets rally.

      Maybe all combined. Who knows, after all the girly men finish fainting, all the women will find real men and the world will be a better place (plus monster trucks and cattle play merry-hob with homeless camps, just saying.)

      As to your theory that maybe things weren't up-and-up about those carriers you were referring to, in Austin? Quel Surprise. But what better way to shut down teh stupid than by correctly and sanely show the proper and safe carry of weapons, especially now that Texas has the 'y'all can carry a sword now' law. (large blades carry okayed last year.)

      If we let the Left create issues and dictate the message, then we lose. If we can show contrast to the left's bat-shirt hysteria, we win. Kinda like, oh, how people hate President Trump's tweets, but they just keep exposing the stupidity and hypocracy. Which, of course, is why they hate his tweets. (Be more presidential, they said, You mean like Obama or Clinton, I said?)

      Delete
    2. Interestingly, as I recall, when those two schmoes walked into Chipotle's, there were a few double takes, but most people just rolled their eyes and went back to eating. I don't recall any commotion. So....whichever side of the equation those two were on, they didn't get the reaction I think they were hoping for.

      Delete
    3. Mayhaps they got the reaction they were looking for, indifference. And that's what it is about.

      I mean, if you don't check out a room as you enter it or keep situational awareness of who's coming and going, then that's your problem. Using the LAW in place of situational awareness, well, that's your (not you, juvat, the hypothetical idiot who isn't aware of his/her/its surroundings) problem, which, of course, now that you are trying to use the law against me, makes it my problem, but not in a way you thought or wanted.

      Seriously, I saw more anti-gun fudding about the Chipolte people and all the other 'open carry because in your face' people by supposed gun-rights people than by the leftist media. Which is... scary. Very scary.

      Wonder how many of those 'gun-rights people' have 'Vidkun' as their middle name?

      Delete
  2. Never have put ANYTHING on any of the vehicles I've owned, never cared for that. As for the rest of your post I agree. If someone wants to open carry and it's legal to do so, well...... good for them. As to myself I carry concealed everywhere, all the time, except Federal property where it's signed and/or a person is checking or there's a metal detector. That means clearing snow in the winter or yardwork in summer, there's a gun on my person. What people don't see they don't know about but if someone wants to open carry, hey good luck with that choice! Firearm owners need to show more spine at times and stop sniping at each other at times. First they came for the AR owners, then they came for the semi-automatic owners, then they came for the high-powered deer rifle owners..............

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    1. What you said. I totally agree. Which gave us all a preview of what my next post is most likely gonna be. Special bonus points for guessing.

      But there are lots of instances where open carry is actually preferred. Like, oh, say, someone who sweats in 40 degree weather no matter how thin or fat that person is (raises hand. I can't wear socks above 40 degrees else my feet mildew, quickly, and I have to do clorox soaks, no, seriously.)

      A nice chest rig while riding the tractor would be nice.

      Or an exterior holster when dressed as the Michelin Man during winter weather.

      That type of thing.

      And I so totally agree on the attacks on ARs being, again, like in Clinton's days (the dude, well, both of them, I suspect she actually did most of the presidenting and he was just a meat puppet) an attempt to grab even more of our allowance back. Personally, just to watch everyone panic, it would be funny if a candidate said, "I'll let you keep your ARs but all those hunting rifles gotta go!" just to see everyone faint and hear the sounds of millions of butts pucker. Bout time those smug hunter-fuds and target-shooting fuds felt like how the rest of us feel. (No, not actually advocating this, but in the interest of sharing the pain and fear, it would be nice if they got the feeling of being tossed under the bus once in a while...)

      Delete
  3. Car stickers and the freak flag.
    Nothing on either car now, but my former car had a Miskatonic University sticker at the top of the rear window, a Weyland-Yutani Building Better Worlds sticker on the hatch, and a small Umbrella Corporation parking decal.
    I need to dust off the vinyl cutter and get busy.

    The Silicon Graybeard and Borepatch had good recent posts on Game Theory and Gun Control.
    https://thesilicongraybeard.blogspot.com/2019/09/game-theory-and-gun-laws.html
    https://borepatch.blogspot.com/2019/09/maybe-its-time-for-some-common-sense.html
    Yes Beans, I read your comment at Borepatch and I couldn't add anything to say it better.

    On the subject of open carry of long guns, I am gong to borrow what juvat said, "I think there's a big difference between "Can" and "Should"."





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    1. Those stickers are... heh. Yeah. Not too freaky.

      Most freaky? A Bernie 2020 on a Tesla. Talk about... not understanding the candidate.

      Hey, like not wearing a motorcycle helmet, there is a big difference between "Can" and "Should." But... If no one "Can" then we lose the ability to "Should." Which scares me.

      What's really funny is, I've been with a group of medievally dressed people at a restaurant. And no one gave us beef about wearing swords, daggers, maces etc. Not one drop of poop anywhere. We also tipped well and loudly, so that the management knew we were supportive of their wait staff. The table full of State Troopers didn't bat an eye, except to check out the (sorry for a Sunday comment) the 'great tracks of land' some of the ladies' dresses were exhibiting. Heck, even the guy who looked real good in tights didn't get any negative comments, well, actually one of the waitresses pinched his cheek (lower, not upper.)

      Why did we not get hassled by the management, staff and Law Enforcement? Because we weren't being male reproductive units. We were just 'normal' people wearing, well, strange clothes and swords, maces, etc.

      Though we had a rule to try to disarm before going in, sometimes you just kinda forget it's there and not accepted by some parts of the world, after you've been wearing said stuff for a week.

      Like, oh, a buncha hunters coming back from Deer Camp, stopping at a diner on the way in. To me, no problem if they brought in their long-guns and stacked them in their booth, in order to keep them safe from wandering fingers in the parking lot. But that's me. I'm very mellow around weapons.

      Delete
  4. Heavy topic for a Sunday, but well said.

    It is called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Allowances, not the Bill of Privileges Granted by the Gubmint.

    I agree with the difference between "Can" and "Should," what is the point they're trying to make? (That last bit was rhetorical.)

    Once they're done destroying the 2nd, what's next? The 1st, the 5th, take your pick. There are people who want to be in charge these days who will try to take it all away.

    ALL laws regarding weapons in the United States are unconstitutional, therefore illegal. Every politician who voted for a bill restricting possession of weapons is in violation of their oath of office. Any police department which enforces those laws is no better than the Einsatzgruppen of WWII, the difference is of scale, not intent. (Only following orders dontcha know?)

    I can foresee a Lexington/Concord moment in the next few years, especially if the Progs seize power (you know if they win it won't be by legal means, how do you think Shrillary won the popular vote?)

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    1. Oh, they've already destroyed that whole 'Don't enter residence without valid cause and without warrant' thing. And the 1st is reeling from 'Hate Speech' legislation (especially when it gets... selectively enforced... bastiges.)

      All our rights are being turned into allowances before our very eyes. We have candidates for high office who openly proclaim that they are going to take our rights away from us, from proper representation (allowing illegals to vote, suppression of the electoral college, etc) to gun rights.

      Which scares the ever-loving bejeebus out of me. Especially to see people cheering these prog fascists (for that is what they are, well, except for the international socialist sprinkled here or there) on like teenage girls at a rock concert.

      Sorry for the heavy Sunday topic, but... it was and is about something that Our Creator granted us. And no one else.

      Delete
  5. How can he go out in public with a rifle that poorly color-coordinated? Like, all the colors of MOE stock are the same price, why would you pick FDE?

    Ugh, the shame.

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    1. Not everyone has a rifle for every outfit. At least the furniture all matched. No Coyote Mag with Real-tree stock and purple handrails.

      That would be totally shameful. And deserve the derision of one and all.

      But at least the person would have one...

      Delete
    2. True.

      (The unloaded pistol is actually more offensive to my sensibilities than the color issues.)

      Delete
    3. Really. Plastic fantastics make really crappy clubs. At least with an old-school 1911 made of STEEL you can koosh someone's knoggin pretty well.

      Delete
  6. I have two stickers, neither of which is out of place anywhere my car goes.
    One shows everyone I am a fan of my favorite baseball team.
    The other that I am a member of a worldwide service organization.

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    1. Totally cool, on both.

      But there are places having your favorite ball team logo on your car will get it keyed and bashed, because of stupidity. Surprisingly, those are the same places controlled by people who put too many stickers on their cars.

      I need to identify as to some of my feelings, thus the title. I need people to know that the fat man toting his handicapped wife around in a van with a wheelchair in the back has an opinion. Now to get the wife's approval....

      Delete
    2. The guy whose 'old' early-to-mid-70s car whose body was rusting apart, so he completely and as nearly covered everything but the windows and the bumpers with (free for the taking) "Gators '81" stickers. And then drove to Tallahassee for an away game with the ancient rivals. Where FSU fanatics beat the car up with baseball bats and perhaps a sledgehammer, breaking every window, denting it up, and slashing the tires. No stickers for me.

      Delete
  7. Next time why don't you tell us how you REALLY FEEL, Beans? :)

    PS: Nice post, btw..

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    1. Oh, Blogger, you sucked my message away. Poop.

      Well, let's see if I can recreate it.

      Heh. Elsewhere I had a supposed gun-rights person actually say that carrying a rifle openly is compensation for a small male reproductive organ.

      Dude, anytime someone ends their argument with saying I have a small vas, or whatever, well, that means that someone has now entered the leftist 'feelings, woah woah woah feelings' and gotten away from 'just the facts,' which means.... The person being insulted has won the argument. Might as well just start throwing poop like a monkey, Mr/Mrs Emotions-uber-Alles.

      Which, of course, since I won, made me want to go "Whooot, whooot, I won, I won, Whoot!" like an anime monkey sailor right after he touched the anime princess-schoolgirl's butt, right before the anime princess-schoolgirl knocks the anime monkey sailor across the room, because, anime. (subtle reference to a John Ringo book that OldAFSarge won't get because he's tooo busy reading serious stuffs.)

      Thanks. I've been kinda incensed about losing my rights while watching the government (here in FL) treat me like they're allowances. The jerks.

      Delete
  8. Can vs. should. Yeah, I don't have the answer because well, people. I have likely mentioned here that I was a sole proprietor FFL in Kalifornia for near 20 years. Specialized in building custom AR's. Here are some random thoughts.

    So we have this revered contract (as it should be) whereby we agree to pretty much run this whole thing by the ballot box (again, as it should be). Ask me how that's working out in Kalifornia. To quote the late Paul Harvey, "Self government will not work without self discipline".

    Crimes being committed are symptoms of much deeper problems . Proposing more gun laws is like prescribing Tylenol for someone who needs surgery.

    I saw a similar photo elsewhere on the web. Guy in a food court with and AK slung over his back, clear plastic fully loaded magazine in the mag well. Did that scare me? Yes. Why? Because anyone could step up behind him, grab the pistol grip, rack the charging handle, and fire multiple shots into the crowd before he could effectively react. Stoopid. C'mon, use your head. How many people who saw him had the same reaction? How many were registered voters?

    Do I think open carry should banned? Oh, hell no. But here's an idea. Extend to your neighbor across the hall or across the street and open invitation to go to the range. Provide everything. Tell them all they have to do is show up. Explain that there will be nothing political, that you are not trying to change their beliefs, that you don't care if they ever shoot another gun. That people tend to fear what they don't understand, and this is a chance for them to lose some of that fear. Start them out with a 22. The magical moment is when they are lined up on the target, and realize that they are, possibly for the first time in their lives, master of their fate.

    The problem is the bastiges won't leave us alone. Captain Obvious alert--gun control ain't about the guns. They want control. Our contract means nothing to them, and it is being steadily removed from our schools. The tools are there for us to use. Boxes. Soap box. Ballot box. Jury box. Cartridge box. If we would but us the first three so as to avoid the last.

    I'll leave you with these--

    https://lonestarparson.blogspot.com/2019/09/wisdom-from-down-under-and-climate.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up3MMH5qGnA

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    1. Totally agree. If the others (including too many of our own) would just leave us alone, well, incidents of stupid open carry would go away. As we would self-police, like we do at many gun ranges. We gunnies are better at spreading the message than any overbearing jackass.

      I just hate it that we do have to push this hard to keep what little we have left. Discounting the obvious leftists trying to stir trouble, which is why we gunnies should approach open carriers and enter into a nice discussion as to proper carry and weapon discipline. No shouting, no shoving, just... talking.

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    2. And, I support open carry if the open carrier is maintaining good control and situational awareness. But then again, we all need to practice good control of our property and good situational awareness, whether we are armed or not. Because, well, protection starts with the person.

      I have gone up to cops and told them that their holster was unfastened or their AR mag was falling out. Only the totally pedejo-ed cop took umbrage. The rest? Thanked me. I am sure the same will occur if I tell an open carrier the same thing. Or a concealed carrier who was exposing accidentally. Most correct the situation and thank me. A few? Well, jerks are found everywhere.

      Delete
  9. A reasonable discussion of the tension between

    "don't scare the horses"
    and
    "horses and dogs need to be trained to hold under loud noises or at the sight of firearms "

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    1. Yup. And there is a fine line between exercising one's rights and freaking the mundanes out. The first is just good practice, using proper control and situational awareness. The other is just, well, being an ass.

      Being an ass is usually still legal.

      One could legitimately carry a big old Barrett and carry it properly without raising a fuss. One can also open carry a Lorcen pea shooter and do it in "Total (male unit) mode." Both are legal. It is the responsibility of the carrier to not be a Total (male unit.) But even if he/she/it is a TD, if it's still legal, then all the rest of us can and should do is shake our heads and say something like "Kids these days..." If, that is, it's legal.

      Delete
    2. Gotta ensure the horses and pups are used to the sight of firearms for sure. While I'm not one to open carry (not just 'cause I live in Kalifornia), I have to hand it to those that do. There are plenty of vids of men exercising that right, and 50 times that many comments calling them yahoos or other derogatory things, but that is one of the few ways we can "use it or lose it" when it comes to one of our 2A rights.

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    3. Yup. First instance of open carry was when my family visited a friend of my dad's who was a serious sheep farmer, like huge numbers of sheep. He didn't leave the house without a pistol and a rifle slung over the shoulder, due to predators bothering his stock. And he was known to, if at the bottom of his spread, walk into a store to buy something, with guns on him, because he didn't want to leave them on his horse. And this was back in 1969.

      Funny story about that sheep farm... may tell it one of these days... heh.

      And, yeah, open carry isn't for everyone. Though it might make public education a more safer place (if we replace most of the leftist doodleheads with veterans, I mean, who needs 5-6 years of college if you're only teaching 12th grade?)

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    4. That story wouldn't involve jail and a court order to stay at least 100 yards from the sheep, would it? ;^)

      Delete
  10. Okay, here's the scenario. You're standing in line at the local stop-n-rob, and the two guys in front of you turn to each other and and engage in a long, lip-locking, spit-swapping kiss. It's perfectly legal, right? How does that affect your opinion of gay people? Does it inspire you to work to expand gay rights?
    Some things that are legal, shouldn't be done in certain places. I've never seen an open carrier carrying a rifle, but every one of the dozen or so open pistol carriers I've seen was carrying in a non-secure holster (either cheap nylon or open-top Kydex or leather) on a crappy belt, and was engaged in an activity that required all his attention (paying for merchandise, wrestling a heavy appliance into the bed of a pickup in a big-box-store parking lot, etc.). These people were asking to be robbed of their guns. Not a good advertisement for the Bill of Rights.

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    1. Um, so.... what my usual response to anybody lip-locking anyone else while standing in line is to say "Gee, get a room already," in a humorous way and the response is usually for the lip-lockers to laugh it off and go and hold hands or side hug.

      As to two gays doing open-liplocking, actually, that's how a lot acted while working on getting equal recognition. As to expanding gay rights, what expansion is needed?

      I donna understand your line of reasoning.

      Open Carry is about expressing rights as they exist now, so that they aren't lost. Where it's legal to open carry, where no laws exist restricting open carry. As an expression of the open carrier's open carry rights.

      It's not about open carrying in places where it's illegal (illegally, according to the Constitution - see Bill of Rights, 2nd Amendment, the primary statement thereof.) in order to get open carry. Which, I think, was the analogy you were trying to make.

      Gays rightly rose up and were openly gay in places that made being and acting gay illegal. By lip-locking, hugging, wearing ridiculous costumes and outfits and stealing the darned RAINBOW from children. They fought against laws and societal pressure to be allowed the same 'rights' as straights.

      Would you, in your lip-locking example, feel uncomfortable if it was two heteros? Or a black couple of whatever orientation? Or a mixed couple of whatever orientation? How would it influence your opinion of heteros, or blacks or mixed-races?


      As to open carriers losing situational control, heck, as noted above, I've pointed it out to cops. And one Secret Service employee (neat person, good stories, I'd have to kill you...) It's their right to be stupid. It's your right to point it out to them.

      And, quite frankly, a lot of people buy sucky holsters because that's all that is available in their area, or that's what they've been taught is acceptable, or, after blowing the money on the gun, they don't have a lot of spare cash.

      And them having a gun is a good advertisement of the Bill of Rights. Not having any gun is a bad advertisement.

      See the analysis of open-carry fails as analyzed at McThag's place. https://mcthag.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-argument-against.html Surprisingly, for all the lack of situational awareness amongst carriers, it really isn't a problem.

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    2. My reasoning is, your public behavior influences how other people look at you, whether what you're doing is legal or not. And doing things that alarm people, even though it's legal, doesn't cause them to look kindly upon you, and may cause them to be more agreeable to politicians who promise to restrict that type of alarming behavior.
      I support the legality of open carry, as do you. And if you or I walked into a public place open carrying a rifle, we know we have no criminal intent. But if you were sitting with your family in a restaurant and someone you didn't know walked in open carrying an AK, how willing would you be to bet your family's lives that he's just there for a cup of coffee?
      Public relations is what wins elections, and alarming people just because it's legal isn't good public relations. As a group, we have to stop looking down on non-gun people and make an effort to win their hearts and minds.
      As far as the crappy holsters go, the idea that "that's all that's available in their area" presumes that they don't know how to use the internet.
      And you wouldn't have to kill me if you told me your SS stories; I've got a few of my own.

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    3. And as for your statement that the lack of situational awareness amongst carriers really isn't a problem, at least three open carriers have been robbed of their guns within the past year or so within a 50-mile radius of me.

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    4. As to the second, well, that's their own damned fault. Not the fault of the rest of us. That's that individual responsibility thingy that the leftists want to take away from us, because we're children in their eyes.

      As to the first, well, we in the gun world have been hiding in the shadows for too long, because we're scared the wimply liberal fartblossoms will faint at the sight of an armed person. And it's got us what exactly? A right not used is a right denied.

      As to the dude walking in with an AK slung, properly, and doesn't look like a douchenozzle, antifa, BLM or member of the religion of pieces, and the restaurant allows it? So?

      We on the right and we who are for individual rights have been cringing in the dark for too long. Media is already against us. What more can they do than to take away what they're already taking away?

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    5. And, as to the second, well, seen a lot of stolen cars where I live. Especially stolen at gas pumps and stop-n-robs, or at the Mall (person full of bags, opens car, turns on to get AC going, and, yep, stolen right there. First time I've seen a concealed carrier pull a gun was when they tried this on a 4' nothing lady, who pulled a full-size out of her purse and proned the bastige. (Big problem of youths on east side of town stealing a car to go to the mall and then stealing a car to go back home, youths, of course, so they were treated as juveniles and just given a slap on the wrists, well, until they were 18.. Why were they given so many chances to learn how to steal cars? Because they're children... yeah, right, pull another one...)

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  11. One of the things I like about our corner of Al Gore's most excellent Information Superhighway is that we can agree - even vociferously - but still be in the same Tribe.

    But my opinion on the whole Open Carry thing (which I don't think I've explicitly stated so far) is that there's a good reason that in the 1960s civil rights marches everyone wore their sunday go to meetin' clothes. We're trying to convince people who don't quite see us as equal human beings that we're like their neighbors. I don't have any problem with handgun OC anywhere it's legal, or even long gun OC where it's Just Us Folks.

    But other long gun OC doesn't "normalize" us, it scares the White Folks.

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    1. A lot of those nicely dressed civil rights people also open carried, at least in some sections of the south. In order to stop those nice young democrats in their crisp white sheets...

      And, quite frankly, I don't see that there's anything else we as gun-people can do to get Mr/Mrs/Whatevs Blue State Leftist Collectivists to acknowledge that the 2nd Amendment's statement of "shall not be infringed" means just that, hands off, back off, no restrictions, etc. So, well, 'Smoke 'em if you got them.' If it is between flying the freak flag and quietly allowing my rights to be dribbled away, well, Hoist Away!!!

      As to long guns, well, most of the instances of long gun exposure seem to be in response to local officials of one form or another not being able to understand the laws that pertain, at that place and at that time, to open carry of pistols, knives, tools etc. So, yeah, long gunning is a big thumb in the eye to all the fuds in the area. Like Florida Carry's response to the first Open Carry Fishing event, where no long guns were at. Well, fuds, here we go, long guns.

      And, well, nobody got too riled up over the Black Panthers openly carrying at a polling place, in fact, #44's (in)Justice Department found 'no harm no foul.' So, well, what's good for the Panthers is good for the Crackers, right?

      Yeah, there's shock value, and there's pissed-off-not-gonna-take-it-anymore value and there's "Where's my Quid Pro Quo?"

      It may not be the best thing, but, really, in gun rights, we're really up against the wall here.

      And, yeah, open discussion like what used to drive politics in this nation is what makes me really enjoy this bloggish stuff. And being on the right, we are not Borgish in our thoughts, we don't have "One Thought, One Mind, the Collective." like what those on the left seem to have.

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    2. The 60's civil rights people were being openly black, they didn't need to carry anything else to show that, just their faces in their Sunday best.

      The LGBT crowd tried the Sunday best, Ms Manners behavior for years because it worked to Dr King... to no avail. They didn't start making headway until they REALLY let the Phreak Phlag Phly! Then off to one side; a well dressed, mild mannered spokesperson saying, "Now that we have your attention, most of us are really just like you except..."

      The two things which are different with gun rights is our well dressed and mild mannered spokesperson is not granted an interview by the modern press; and we don't have a mild mannered spokesman because the well dressed person off to the side with the "I'm Pro-Gun" lapel pin is screaming in fear about all the freaks with guns.

      Gun owners are the first civil rights proponents who are distinguished by something we own rather than something we are. That's a conceptually difficult thing for lots of people to grasp.

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    3. Open Carry Texas' carry of rifles is often cited as an example of being stupid about it.

      At the time, though, open carry of handguns was illegal. The only open carry allowed was long arms. The law itself determined what guns would be carried if they were to remain within the confines of the law.

      The Florida Carry events, likewise, are openly carrying in the only manner allowed by law.

      There's 45 states where open carry is not a problem at all (including Texas now) and that really should be a clue to the folks having the vapors over it and how it's affecting the public at large.

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  12. I have a US flag on my back window, so I'm probably going to be a target, sooner or later... They might not like the fact that 'this' target won't respond passively...

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  13. Beans, I like one of your analogies particularly, 'cause I ride: that of not wearing a helmet when it isn't required by law.
    Myself, if I'm on a bike & intend to do more than 5 mph, I wear a helmet. Those who choose not to? Don't care. Your head, your choice.
    Damn, my libertarian (yes, small "L") is showing again.
    --Tennessee Budd

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  14. Down in Florida, those of us who are natives have always thought it real nice that the state set up a school for those poor unfortunate students who couldn't get into UF... and called it fsu, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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Just be polite... that's all I ask. (For Buck)
Can't be nice, go somewhere else...

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