God willing and the Creek don't rise, by the time you're reading this, Mrs J and I will be home with our cards punched certifying us as Cruising under WuFluLu conditions. Since I'm writing this PRIOR to our cruise, I can only hope and pray that those conditions are tolerable. (Late Breaking News: Cruise was excellent and, after a VERY exciting boarding process, went off with little turmoil.) Expect next week's report to provide details.
Anyhow, on with the show.
Given that this Christmas is somewhat non-traditional this year, Christmas presents presenting is also. Mrs. J outdid herself with her gift for me. As longtime readers remember, I'm a fledgling woodworker. I've been at it for several years, but my 10 X 16 (External dimensions. Internal is 9' 4" X 15' 4" .) is too small for most of my projects. Trying to cut larger pieces of wood into needed dimensions is becoming increasingly dangerous as the table saw takes up a large portion of interior space.
Based on the risk and difficulty of doing things right, I've put off doing anything at all.
So, she authorized a new shop purchase.
Or phrased differently, the purchase of a new shop.
Which was delivered on Pearl Harbor Day.
The whole delivery and setup was pretty fascinating to watch although the Dad and Son team seemed rather blasé about it.
Backed the truck up to approximately where it was going to be set up and lifted the front end to slide it most of the way off.
Then used a three wheel fork lift to maneuver it into position.
I thought this part of the property was pretty level so it surprised me what it took to get it that way. But finally, it was done.
The open door beckons.
Will it work? Will I fit?
I do believe I will.
So, while I'm on our cruise. I'm bringing my project folder with graph paper and cut out tool footprints.
And prioritizing next steps in bringing it on line.
1. Electricity
2. Lighting
3. Insulation
4. Heating/Cooling
Et Cetera, Et Cetera, Et Cetera.
Suggestions gratefully accepted (or at least carefully considered.)
May your results in that new facility be better than the short-term results following Pearl Harbor!
ReplyDeleteMerry Christmas and Happy New Year!
MM,
DeleteSince this was written week before last, I had a difficult time figuring out the Pearl Harbor ref. Finally got it. :-)
Thanks,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours also!
Reference was to your "Which was delivered on Pearl Harbor Day."
DeleteYeah, after I reread my post I figured that out.
DeleteGood point though.
Welcome back from the cruise, and I'm looking forward to finding out that you meant by "exciting."
ReplyDeleteThe new shop looks awesome. I suggest that you begin by doing almost everything inside on a temporary basis.
The larger tools can be on movable bases, and your graph paper planning is a very good start.
Even in the garage, I didn't run permanent air lines. The air line that goes from the big compressor to the hose reel is 3/8" PVC and it has held up for years and years, and the woodworking air tools are driven by a small compressor in the basement via a coiled up rubber air hose.
The multi purpose shop area in the basement got a major rearrangement several years ago, and the only permanent installation is the PVC dust collection piping in the overhead.
I suggest that all lighting be LEDs.
There is so much to think about.
John,
DeleteThanks, and Will Do.
Permanent Air Lines won't be a problem as right now I only have a small portable compressor. It's good enough for right now, so I'll have some time to think that one out.
As you can see, the overhead is accessible and should be easy to do as you suggest. I think I'm boing to route the Table Saw's dust down through the floor and out. It's going to be somewhere in the middle of the space, so I can work around it with little problem. A dust attachment going anywhere but down would get in the way I think.
Big time on LED's. One they're comparatively inexpensive and two they're bright, I'm thinking two on each of the lower ceiling and two up in the raised center ceiling.
Yeah, but I had a lot of time recently watching waves and pondering layouts.
Are the window sills the same height as the table saw, joiner, etc.? I made my garage so I could pass a long piece in one side, over the machine and out the other side. Old Guns
ReplyDeleteOG,
DeletePretty sure they're a bit too high, but, right now the first thing inside the door will be the table saw. If I had to cut something really long, I'd reposition it to just inside the door which would leave about 20' to the far wall. I suppose it's possible I'd need to cut something that long, but unlikely. As to windows, their both on the same side, so not much help in the cutting realm.
Thanks
Overbuild your electrical and HVAC systems. Build the electrical with future upgrades in mind. AIR FILTRATION IS GONNA BE A HUGE BENEFIT. Your ac filter will thank you and consequently your sweat glands will also.
ReplyDeleteAre you going to insulate and finish it? If so, before or after the electric install? Surface mounted conduit and raceways make future work easy but they're easily dinged and damaged. YMMV. If you think you've got adequate lighting add some more. If you think you've got enough outlets, convert all your duplex/GFCI outlets to quad boxes. Overbuild it, no asset was ever condemned for having too many well engineered features.
The downside is that good engineering in general and task specific upgrades ain't cheap.
I'm looking forward to your tales of progress and success with this endeavor.
Fred,
DeleteThat is definitely my plan. The Electrician is coming today or tomorrow to scope out the problem and get me a quote. My intent is to have at least 4 outlets on each wall so ~6' between and two on each end. I like your suggestion about quads, think I'll tell him that's what I want.
I've got an Air Filter in my old shop and agree that made a big difference in "Things". Going to have to look at it's specs to see if it's beefy enough for the larger space.
Once the electrician is finished and the dust control ducting is in place, the next step will be insulation. It does get coolish here in the winter, but summer is when that becomes vital.
Thanks
Nothing will ever be as inexpensive in the future as it is now, so buy now is smart.
ReplyDeleteInflation is just getting started.
buckle up- its gonna get ugly
Mark,
DeleteAgreed, unfortunately. Heck, even on the economy in the Caribbean, Single Malt Scotch was much more expensive than two years ago. I had to forego Sarge's usual Christmas bottle. More's the pity.
And that existing shop doesn't go anywhere. Maybe use it for the paint and stain work or storage but be selfish and keep it for your woodworking operating. Move it next to the new one and anchor a leanto between them for even more under cover room.
ReplyDeleteBut you'll be able to use the room.
Fred,
DeleteThat's not a bad idea, but moving it will have to be put in the "later" category. At a minimum I'll have to figure out what that entails. It's several hundred feet away and behind a couple of fences, so it will take some planning.
If it's got skids under it a stout tractor with a front end loader and a chain. Will make quick work of moving it and lowering everything on the shelves to the floor.
DeleteFred,
DeleteIt does. Thanks, I got a chuckle from the last clause. I'll bet it does. Tractor, aye. Flat bed trailer, aye. Less damage to the road. Highly desirable.
Glad to hear the the cruise went well after some initial excitement. Looking forward to the after report.
ReplyDeleteI think the only thing my father regretted when he built out his barn was not having a source of water nearer than what it ended up being. In a shop with a lot of electricity is (probably) a bad idea and perhaps the new shop is close enough to the house that it is not an issued, but perhaps something to think about - maybe alternatively, an outside sink with a cover to rinse up before going inside?
TB,
DeleteAnother good idea. The shop is between the house and the horse barn. I have a hose stretched there to water the horses. I've been thinking about having a plumber put in an actual water line to make that a bit more reliable than the current situation. Shouldn't be difficult to add a connection along the way.
Thanks
Everything FredL said Plus a few suggestions. Radiant barrier plus fiberglass insulation with interior walls of quarter inch plywood mounted with screws. Assuming your electrical circuits are run through the walls, this one enables you to remove a panel if you need to add or modify a circuit. I hate pump will provide cooling and heating sufficient for your workspace; in my case I used one with a 20 amp 110 volt circuit and it has worked well in my 24x36 ft garage for 25 years. LED tube lighting which fits in fluorescent light fixtures provides excellent illumination with very little electrical draw.
ReplyDelete-Barry
Barry,
DeleteExcellent suggestion about fastening the interior walls. That's gonna happen! Thanks. I'm gonna consult with the electrician but I'm pretty sure I want LED lighting. Had fluorescent lighting in the old shop and it just wasn't bright enough at times.
I'm going to pass on a "Hate" pump, just because. ;-) But I will be using a heat pump.
Thanks
Are high winds enough of an issue to warrant anchoring the workshop to the ground? And with "level ground" review the drainage patterns to make sure access isn't compromised on wet dreary days when you'd like to be in the shop but access would either be a challenge or result in bringing in more mud & water than you want.
ReplyDeleteAgree on more light is better and allowing for rearrangement of equipment as time and use patterns change. Same on ventilation and dust removal. Adam Savage covered shop arrangement that point recently on his Tested YouTube channel, pointing out that workshops are living things that evolve as the user's needs and interests change. I think this is the one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1NoqJXX-c
A couple others in that vein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1uxC8RUiKU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25eZ17IoRK4
/
L.J.
LJ,
DeleteShort of a tornado, I think we're in pretty good shape. My old shop wasn't anchored and didn't have any problems. The orientation of this one is broadside to the prevailing wind, but the shape of the roof should encourage the wind to go up and over. That having been said, I'll look into anchors as a possibility. Thanks
Thanks for the links, I'll watch those today while waiting on the electrician.
The new shop looks pretty cool.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to the cruise AAR.
Sarge,
DeleteWe had a great time. The last time Mrs J and I went on a cruise by ourselves was our honeymoon. It was nice to be able to just sit and talk without distractions or things needing to be done.
Thanks,
A gift that keeps on giving.
ReplyDeleteSkip,
DeleteYep. Looking forward to that giving thing!
Skip the center light if it's not already installed. Install an overhead fixture in each corner (ideally, 36" or 48" Daylight LED) one end pivoted in the corner, able to swing to parallel either wall. At least two circuits, one for each opposing pair (so you can work on one while the other is safely on; those can also have outlet boxes for desk, audio, TV, ....) At least two other circuits, one 6"-12" above bench height outlets, the other nominal floor height. (I'd prefer four, one side and the other, high and low.) At least two independent outside circuits for ....
ReplyDeleteKnew a guy who used 1/4" pegboard to cover the entire interior of his shop (painted white.) Want to temporarily hang something? Move it? Easy. Found the place something "lives"? Paint an outline on the pegboard.
Locking castors, as much as possible.
HTom,
DeleteInteresting suggestion about lighting. Going to have to think that one through. My plan (always subject to change of course) was to have the lighting on one switch, so step in, flip it on and can see well. Other spot lighting would be positioned as needed.
Had pegboard in the prior shop. Didn't really like it, hooks and stuff kept pulling out etc. I'm looking into Slatwall panels as an alternative. Same kind of principle, move a tool until you find its home, then leave it there, but the hangers are much more likely to stay in place. (Or at least that's what the promo's say.)
Agreed about locking castors.
Thanks
(Don McCollor)...Htom beat me to it, but white paint. Increases the brightness for working wonderfully. With lights, there are florescent fixtures (likely led now) that mount in the corner between wall and ceiling out of the way and project down at an angle, eliminating a lot of the shadows of overhead lighting (need some of that too). Suggest two switches, one for minimal lighting, and a second for actually working...
DeleteDon,
DeleteYeah, I can see the advantage of white paint and will probably follow that advice. I may look into the combo of corner and overhead and see what the options are there.
Thanks,
(Yes, an 8 to 12 breaker box, or 20 if you have 220V ++ for big saws.)
ReplyDeleteHTom,
DeleteAlready on my shopping list.
Thanks.
Ditto on the plywood walls. I've seen some neat French Cleat systems for storage and sorting and such, or you can go traditional peg-board.
ReplyDeleteHighly suggest you get some cardboard boxes/make cardboard boxes approximately the size of your tools as they are so much easier to move while actually figuring out stuff than the tools/benches/stuffs.
As to routing the dust collector outside through the floor? No. Nope. Unless the actual dust collector is outside. Reason? Sawdust attracts termites like powdered sugar attracts ants and roaches. Now they make some neat wall-mounted dust collectors, and you can run the lines around the room at roof level and have the table saw be a drop feed, or mount it normally and make the hose to the wall mount be long enough that it hangs to the floor.
As to air lines, someone up there said PVC and that works until something cracks the line while under pressure and you get exploding PVC shrapnel. If you're doing shop-air, best go with one of the shop-air kits. They're cheap(ish) and are built for air pressure. Especially in a shop where the temps will be variable due to not keeping the AC/Heat running 24/7/365. Safety First, especially if your wife finds out.
Are you going to put anything on the floor like vinyl or linoleum?
Beans,
DeleteWalls are definitely going up once electricity and insulation is installed. Cardboard boxes is also a good idea.
Not sure I understand the termite issue. My thought was to have a sealed PVC (or something similar) pop up through the floor near the table saw, then pop up again near the dust collector. It would have to be sealed so the suction would be maintained, so I'm not sure how the beasties would get into the pipe.
All my air driven tools are portable, so right now, I'm using tubing specifically designed for that. So, I shouldn't have a problem there. Shrapnel is bad.
Flooring? I'd like to put down an anti-skid but somewhat cushioning flooring. But that's probably (OK definitely) not in the budget right now.
Ah, that makes sense as to routing dust collector. I was thinking you were just shooting sawdust under the shed.
DeleteAs to antiskid cushion, just some old carpet would do. Don't tack it down so once a year you can yank it outside and shake out the dirt and dust.
I suppose that would work, but I'll probably save my nickels and dimes and put in some sweepable flooring. Even with dust collection, the amount of sawdust produced and scattered is awe inspiring.
DeleteI'm still looking for the magic formula that prevents each and every flat place in the shop from being used as a temporary storage area for stuff.
ReplyDelete"Just for the TamBien" is usually my saying. TamBien is rarely less than multiple years and usually millenia in length.
DeleteIOW I have no clue on the magic formula. Sorry, my Friend.
The stuff on flat places has gotten more than a bit our of hand, today I needed to use the bandsaw, and I only cleaned off a strip of the saw table that was just wide enough to use.
DeleteThe good news is that the repairs to the shattered drawer bottom of the 131+ year old treadle sewing machine are nearing completion.
John,
DeleteThat must be a pretty cool project. Pictures?
Yep...
DeleteI will put together an album of photos and forward the link.
This video is me learning to treadle and doing some sewing.
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/9BaL0oCVTR-ERhx5ToZVzw.xkhlv3rZ2ymkM_bfF8dH8E
Looking forward to that.
DeleteWhere is the floor mount drill press?
ReplyDeleteStB,
DeleteI only have a table top model at this point. Maybe in the future.
The best advice I could give is to hire a professional! Good luck. I'm glad you have HVAC on your list. Those pre-fab rooms are hotboxes so I was wondering how you'd use it in the summer. Looking forward to the cruise AAR.
ReplyDeleteTuna,
DeleteI'd insulated my previous shop myself and the mini-split in it kept it tolerable, both winter and summer. The electrician was supposed to come yesterday, now supposed to come today. We'll see. Think I'm going to go professional both for insulation and air conditioning. The rest I think I can handle.
The cruise was a lot of fun and we definitely scored a mission accomplished. Mrs J is going to be able to answer a lot more questions than she would have been able to before. I was able to score some duty free Scotch, so...Win/Win!
My Mom designed our house in the 1950's. Every room (including bathrooms) had at leas two overhead light fixtures on separate circuits, and at least two outlet boxes on different circuits (usually shared with the overheads.) So handy to work on; pull a breaker, the room still had power and light. She had real squabbles with those who "knew how it's always done". Mom was right. Bathrooms had th first triple switches I'd seen, room lights, mirror lights, exhaust fan.
ReplyDeleteAt least one outlet in each wall. No place more than 8' from an outlet (we had floor outlets in the living room and breezeway, overhead in the garage.) Kitchen counters, four outlets (quad box) every four feet.
Brother's shops have vacuum line to centerish location (overhead) to a T or an H pattern of pipe that have gates directing the suction. Each leg has their own "Dust Deputy" near the tools to minimize cleaning of the overhead piping.
HTom,
DeleteYour Mom seems to have had her act together. Need to think through the switches for lighting options. All lights on one switch vs types of lighting on multiple switches.
Multiple Dust Deputies, think that's a good idea for a little later down the road.
Thanks, I appreciate all your good suggestions. Lot's to think about, but that takes my mind off "Where the heck is the Electrician?"
2-3-4-5-n-way switching by doors should be set up so there is when all are down is all are off. Mostly so if you enter in the dark you know that any up will be on.
ReplyDeleteHTom, the electrician made it today. Had quite a few suggestions and one of them was that. Great minds think alike. Thanks, you've made some really great suggestions (as have the rest of the commenters). I appreciate it.
DeleteAnd it will be too small within in a month...LOL
ReplyDeleteOld NFO. Almost certainly...But what a month it'll be!
DeleteLots of good suggestions here. ^^
ReplyDeletePut the flooring in now. Or it will never happen- too much stuff to move later. Put the machines on locking castors. And the workbench. Plywood on the walls, screw it for easy removal.
240V service as much amperage as affordable. It will mostly depend on the wire run.
Floor drops for dust work OK, but they are a pain to clean jams out of. You will get jams, table saws especially like to spit little thin pieces just big enough to go in the dust port. Plastic pipe jams easier, because it needs a wire inside to ground it.
Buy a wood stove for the house. Easiest way to get rid of scraps.
Raven,
DeleteWe have a fire pit in the back yard for sitting around as well as one at our guest house. Scraps? We don't have no Steenking Scraps!
You're probably right about flooring. I'll need to look into it. Unfortunately, I still haven't won the lottery, so the budget is pretty tight.
You're right about the thin strips thing. I might just have to make one side of the table saw a no go zone and run the tubing that way. Gonna ponder that a bit.
Make the 4" pvc pipe bend "long" sweep, carefully bevel the pipe ends, and when you can, put the pipe and fittings oriented so the up stream ends slip inside the downstream ends. This will help to get rid of the little internal bumps the sticks hang up on. Make one end or both easily removable and keep a piece of moderately flexible wire (like a short piece 1/4" sailboat standing rigging)handy to slide in the tube and break up stuck stuff.
Delete