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| Par example ... (I own both types, plus one steel helmet from WWI) (Source) |
Is it wrong of me to want one of these? (As I already have one ... - original, enlisted model)
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Anyhoo, while chasing all of that I found this website. Fellow rivet-counters and aficionados of WWII German stuff. (This sort of thing has fascinated folks since the war, I've been afflicted with it at times. Their stuff was cool, even if it was used in the service of undiluted evil. Now there's a dilemma for you. At least a lot of it came from German history and wasn't made up by Hitler. Well, except for that whole swastika thing, which is still seen on Buddhist temples. Used to be a good symbol, Hitler poisoned it. Another post there ... Maybe.)
One participant over there had a great tagline -
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs.
Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive ...
Heh.
Anyway, here are some of the "money quotes" I snatched from over there ...
Seriously, if I would get an Euro for every goof and anachronism in a Hollywood (or British) war movie, I would be richer than Bill Gates. What you guys did not mention is the outrageous habit of addressing officers with "Sir" instead of "Herr Hauptmann" or "Mon Capitaine". Every time I watch "Das Boot" with English subtitles, I have a crying fit because of the idiotic translations.
At the not so tender age of 73, I have seen a lot of "War Movies" and since my Dad was a career Marine Officer (1935-1968), I tend to be a little bit critical of the details.On the other hand, the viewers of today would have no real frame of reference as to how accurate the vehicles/uniforms etc. really were in these films. We here are historians, some amateurs such as myself, some more serious and some as Academics and that makes us a bit more demanding of accuracy up to our own standards based on our own knowledge.
Now, who can tell me what's wrong in the opening photograph? (A still from the excellent film Where Eagles Dare. Just kidding, unless you really, really want to ...) OTOH, there is much that is correct about that photo.
Be seeing you.
I would say that the haircuts are really not period correct.
ReplyDeleteThey are not.
DeleteThat's the first thing I saw were the haircuts
DeleteVery 1970s they are.
DeleteThe picture... filtered cigarette?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Viceroy cigarettes were available in Germany during the war, but Wikipedia has them introduced in '36.
DeleteRob - They existed during the war, but not in Europe to my knowledge. So yeah, error.
Deleteboron - To have a guy undercover as a German officer, a mere major at that, smoking a cigarette which would have been rare, if available at all, would have probably given him away as a spy. Remember the movie Inglourious Basterds where the character holds up the wrong fingers for two beers? Yup, Germans notice such things.
DeleteYah, where are the shaved sides and back of the heads? Sideburns in WWII?
ReplyDeleteA major beef with some critics, actors don't want to cut their hair for a part.
DeleteThe glass of wine is too small?
ReplyDeleteStill one of my favorite WW II movies.
Concur on the glass of wine being too small. Maybe it's port? (Still one of my favorites as well.)
DeleteHair & sideburns? The mugs' shape, that inwards turning lip? No water glasses? Coats don't fit or miscut?
ReplyDeleteAll good observations. Also the tunics don't look like they're made of wool.
DeleteYeah, more likely some polyester blend!
DeleteWho drinks wine and beer at the same time?
ReplyDeletejuvat
Germans?
DeleteWell, every German red wine I've ever tasted certainly could use a beer before to numb the taste buds a bit. Their white wines however are quite tasty.
Deletejuvat
Love the white wines, avoid the reds!
DeleteA bit off topic, but something to make your skin crawl.
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/adzg_iMg9Sc?si=-fkWiMAWvK1Wf-Dr
https://youtu.be/d3Y3-p11yNM?si=lMN88SpWCyuby_vG
DeleteJoe #1 - I'm familiar with the Chilean Army's choice of parade dress and their marching style. It doesn't make my skin crawl as I view it in a larger historical context. The goose step has been around forever, the Nationalist Chinese Army wore the German-style helmet in WWII. It's a bit creepy, but in the early days of the army they adopted many Prussian traditions. There are also units which wear the pickelhaube which goes back to the 19th century/
DeleteJoe #2 - They march pretty, but can they fight?
DeleteThe Chilean Navy has quite a Prussian tradition. And there are lots of Chileans with 'Prussian' names, too. And their beers are very 'Prussian.'
DeleteOf course, one of the first things that 'Prussian' mining engineers did when hired from the old country(ies) was to set up breweries in their 'new' countries and that's why so much of South America has relatively good to excellent beer.
I can think of two other beers that I could enjoy: Pacifico (Mexican) and Tsingtao (Chinese) both were set up by expat Germans.
DeleteI have no problem with the step, lots of military units throughout the ages have had weird steps. But the first time I came across that second video that almost looked like it came from the pages of "Signal" gave me the creeps. Even knowing a tiny bit of the history of Chile it gave me the creeps.
DeletePerhaps I am too used to seeing images of that time period. It is one of my major areas of study and has been over the years.
DeleteHmmm..... might could be my reaction is partially induced by much reading of alternative history science fiction. I have no problem with seeing stuff like that from the '30s and '40s (good Lord! In just a few more years I'll have to specify WHICH '30s I'm talking about), but seeing it in the present gets my hackles up.
DeleteUnderstood, it is a bit eerie.
DeleteAs to that 'evil' crooked armed St. Andrew's Cross, well, the 45th Infantry Division (The Thunderbirds) originally had... a swastika. Suddenly changed in time for WWII. Oops.
ReplyDeleteAnd those that get wigged out by Nazi stuff? Pffffffttttt. It's history, man. I knew a guy who did WWII reenactment when I was in college who had a VW Thing fitted up in North African colors (the DAK palm tree had a VW instead of a swastika in it just because he was that type of an idiot) and he was Jewish. His grandmother gave him some jaw once in a while, but she was a pistol herself.
Funny, though, how we supposedly vilify the Nazis while we have become national socialist. Sigh.
And the movie? Great movie, but, yes, the clothing hangs wrong, the haircuts, the... everything. Though watching Richard Burton drag Clint Eastwood makes up for a lot of it, and trying to figure out how many crosses are crossed in the movie (double-cross, triple-cross... n+1-cross) does get a tad confusing, which, of course, is half the fun. (Wife and I bought some Clint collections and got to see the aforementioned movie along with quite a few others, like "The Eiger Sanction" and such. We're starting on "Rawhide" probably next month.)
The swastika dates way back. Effing Hitler stole a perfectly good symbol and tarred it forever.
DeleteBeans, I fully agree- people are far to sensitive and looking for offense. They love the publicity of being offended when someone steps out of line with anything regarding the Civil War or Nazi Germany.
DeleteOff topic from the rivet counting, but I really enjoyed Joe's two videos of the Chilean military and their classic German military adaptations.
ReplyDeleteSouth American military forces are an interesting topic. They often go from feast to famine in terms of funding, and commitment to civilian dominance or coups and juntas. Their fighting abilities over the last 150 years range from formidable to comic opera.
Thanks to the U.S. Monroe Doctrine, they typically are somewhat friendly to U.S. policies, and often use a LOT of U.S. gear provided free or cheap as foreign aid. However, South America was pretty much a prime market for German in the pre-WW1 days, with Mausers, Maxims and Krupp cannon everywhere. Their navies were mainly foreign built, in the UK, Germany or the U.S.
As Joe's two great videos showed, in Chile, the Prussian influence is alive and well. Since the War of the Pacific (1879-1884 involving Chile, Bolivia and Peru) Chile has been relatively uninvolved in combat operations, but their forces seemed professional when I had the chance to interact with their Navy some 40 years ago.
My personal favorites were the Argentine forces, and their performance in the unfortunate Falklands/Malvinas dispute was credible against the waning global power of the UK. Argentina had a strong attachment to Prussian fashions and tactics, as well as arms in the early 20th century, but drifted away over the decades since. That country has chronically suffered economic turmoil, a mix of socialism, populism, goofy monetary policy, and big egos competing for power, and colorful dictators. Inflation, indebtedness and inability to pay bills and confiscatory taxation have indeed resulted in military feast or famine. Anyway, all that turmoil probably helps explain today's Argentine military. Here is a six minute video of Argentina's 2109 parade (celebrating their 9 July 1816 declaration of independence from Spain). There is still some Prussian flavor, but also a lot of nostalgic Napoleonic effetism, and a surprising amount of up to date "tacticool" stuff and women everywhere. The vehicles and specialties shown are pretty impressive. Of course, it may have blown their entire military budget for the year on the parade...
The dubbed in audio is sort of annoying, but the images make it worth while anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S796JRDk6Zg
" in Chile, the Prussian influence is alive and well. "
DeleteSorta like the old joke about "alive and well and living in Argentina."
Other examples of German influence in Latin America can be seen in Mexico (which is why I wrote Latin America rather than South America) in both their beer and the Mexican umm-pah music that sounds as if it was composed in Bavaria.
Most interesting clip from Argentina. I'll need to look into their military a bit more closely. Lot of different uniform influences there.
DeleteJoe - Mexican beer, at least Pacifico and Modelo, is superb.
DeleteHitler not only poisoned the use of the swastika but the term "SS". Back in the 30s when jaguar was making a sports car one of them was called the "SS", presumably for their original name, swallow sidecar
Deleteas far as German helmets what I always found fascinating was that German paratroopers were not under control of the army but the
Luftwaffe.
And I believe they were top-notch fighters
Which I suppose makes sense. And their helmets were different from the standard German Army helmet
The Fallschirmjäger helmet was a cutdown version of the standard helmet. Also had a different harness, no doubt to keep it on during the shock of the parachute opening.
Delete