Wednesday, November 6, 2024

Uniformity

One of the many Navy history photos that decorated the walls of my NROTC unit.

Uniformity, when it comes to military uniforms, may be like what Inigo Montoya said in The Princess Bride:  "I do not think it means what you think it means."  There are so many variations, what you can and can't wear in certain situations, and what parts can or can't go with other parts, everybody wearing different authorized uniforms, etc.  Both Juvat and Sarge have recently written about uniforms which included the goods, bads, and others.  So I figured I'd weigh in with my own thoughts and experiences.  While I expressed my belief that the Navy Choker White Dress uni is the absolute best, I admit I am heavily biased.  My father was the primary influence for me joining the navy, but that uniform didn't hurt. I had seen my uncle in his Marine dress blues, and was impressed, but not enough to sway my choice of service by any means.  Besides the chokers I do like the summer whites, especially with the black shoulder boards of an officer, which adds a small amount of contrast to the crisp whiteness.  

Me at my retirement with my dearest Aunt Jo (wife of the Marine mentioned above)

I think the blue crackerjacks for the enlisted men and women look sharp as well, especially when I think about those 70s era recruiting posters.  While my father was already a Chief when he married my mom, I remember photos of him wearing it and it looked good on his 6' 5'' frame.  Ever see Jack Nicholson in "The Last Detail?"  He made that uniform look great.

I like that Eisenhower-like jacket the army has moved to, but it looks a little awkward when not in the context of a World War II movie.  Actually, now that I think about it, it looks like they're playing dress-up to look like WWII officers.  Silly name for it too- Pinks and Greens?  More like mossy-brown and khaki.  I'm not a fan of some of the more recent variants of the USAF's uniforms- that dress uniform Juvat showed looks like bellhop outfits.  But maybe that's just a ceremonial band uniform.  For the other?  Star Trek wants their wardrobe back.


Did you ever see the Navy's re-attempt at aviation greens? It didn't last long, and those that bought it spent way too much money for a uniform that lasted for far too short of a period.  It looked good, but when and where would one wear it?  


Screen grab from "Battlestations" on YouTube


I do think those dress khakis in World War II movies looked amazing, but those did not translate well into a modern uniform either.  They looked great in black and white, but not so good live and in color.  The gold buttons look out of place to me, probably because the black and white photos didn't show the gold. I think the pairing with the garrison cover is also a mistake- better with the combination cover.  It doesn't really matter, if the Navy still authorizes it for wear, I never see anyone wearing it.  Not sure I ever have.

                                             

Sources:  US Navy photo, Nimitz photo

Speaking of unworn uniforms, the Working Blues is another uniform left in the back of a dusty moth-eaten closet.  I have no idea when the Navy dropped it, probably sometime in the early 90s I'd guess, but I don't remember ever seeing it worn, nor did I wear it after college, despite being issued to me.  It looked ok, but wasn't really utilized.  Maybe I remember some use in office spaces ashore early in my career, but no officers from what I recall.  Had I been stationed in Norfolk or DC, my experience might have been different, but for the warmer climes of Pensacola and SoCal, not a very practical uni.


For a bit of a recap, here's all the uniforms that were part of a Sailor's or Officer's Sea Bag:

Service Dress Blues
Service Dress Whites (Summer Whites)
Winter Working Uniform (Johnny Cash)
Working Khaki / Service Uniform (now black and tans)
Washed Khaki (long or short sleeve) / Shipboard Working Uniform (dungarees, now NWU, or 2POC, or coveralls)
Washed Whites (cotton vice polyester) (enlisted only)
Flight Suit (if authorized)
Flight Suit (desert brown)
Garrison Cap (aka piss-cutter)
Combination Cover (white, khaki)
Flight Jacket (leather G-1 / green Nomex)
Service Khaki Windbreaker

Officers / Chiefs only:
Service Dinner Dress Whites (Chokers)
Mess Dress Blues / Whites (Tux)
Sword (optional until O-4)

Optional pieces include(d) a service sweater, Eisenhower Jacket, or pea coat.  Ladies also had dress uniform options (capes and tiaras), flats or heels, skirts or pants.  

Several of these have been discontinued or are rarely worn, and the washed whites/Johnny Cashes are replaced for enlisted by the NWU and Black and Tans.  I think the bag can be limited to SDBs, Whites, Khakis, and Chokers for the Officers, SDBs/Whites, Black & Tans, NWUs for Enlisted.  There are various restrictions for some uniforms as well- some not allowed out in town (to/from home only)

VS-21 Redtails on Iwo Jima.  Red or black t-shirts were authorized.*

Enough of a history lesson, or what I can remember of history.  All those uniforms aside, for most of my career I was able to wear a flight suit.  Never mind the chokers, the flight suit was the most comfortable, the easiest to wash and wear, and pretty cool considering what we did with them, i.e. flying.  Fortunately I never had to buy or wear those god-awful blueberry camouflage unis. They came out towards the end of my career, but I was able to keep that flight suit on.  When I was at TAO** on USS Carl Vinson, I actually enjoyed the comfort and style of the washed khaki long sleeved shirts.  They were better than the flight suit in the combat spaces which had extra air conditioning due to all the electronics.  When combined with either the leather jacket or the green flight jacket, they made for a comfortable and warm combo.  During my first tour, washed khakis, the short sleeve version, were the uniform of the day when standing the duty in the ship's ready room, or when we had awards quarters at sea.  Regular khakis on duty when back ashore.  I almost forgot the flight deck Jersey that many ships company folks got to wear inside the ship and out at sea. White for officers and Chiefs involved in non flight deck duties, I was able to wear a yellow one a couple times while standing Flight Deck Safety Officer once I was back in the airwing. Or maybe it was white, or even green- too long ago to adequately clear those brain cobwebs.


My service dress blues were worn only a couple dozen times during my career.  Pulling into port after deployment during the winter months was a couple of those times, if I wasn't flying off or desiring to man the rails.  Each squadron had a requirement to send some number of men and women up to the flight deck but I don't remember my number ever being called.  For the first hour the brow was down, SDBs or Summer Whites was required (better look for family and media.  Returning from war after 9/11 on Vinson was a memorable moment and the picture of me carrying my daughter and walking hand in hand with my son and wife, me in SDBs, made the front page of the Bremerton Sun.  My wife, who wrote for the Sun, might have had something to do with that. 

New Navy 2POC Uniform (Source)


As for the Navy's seemingly constant uniform shifts, I'm not a fan.  Not because I am some curmudgeonly old Navy guy, which I am, but because the new uniforms never seem to hit the mark for a wide swath of those serving.  The current green camouflage uniform, the NWU, was only chosen because the CNO at the time hated the blueberries that were foist upon us. Now the shift to the 2POC, two-piece organizational clothing, is supposed to provide them with a easy-to-take-care-of working uniform, but it looks quite sloppy.  Part of that is because it's made for the sailors we are recruiting now, ones that don't necessarily hit their peak fitness now or ever.  The photo above isn't what I've seen- a wrinkled loose ill-fitting set of PJs.  The well-pressed starched ones above aren't truly representative of what's out there in the Fleet.

I'm also not a fan of how the Navy has gone to a single style for both men and women for some unis. The ladies didn't have choker whites, which they now have, it was more of a single breasted suit. And also with that the bucket hat is gone in place of (what was) the standard male combination cover.  I know it was done due to the large difference in the cost of the sea bag for women, but I miss the style they lost, and there's nothing wrong with the differences between male and female bodies.  The Marine Corps hasn't forgotten.  It seems like a larger uniform allowance up front might be able to offset the higher costs, but what is done is done. 

The women also no longer need to keep their hair up, and shoulder length hair falling below the cover, and even ponytails are authorized now.  It just doesn't look professional to me, too casual looking for my taste. Is it a double standard?  Probably, but we are not the same, and I relish our differences.  But there I go again, being all curmudgeonly.

Any ladies in current or former service wish to provide their opinion? I'm looking up to Hanford and Maryland for two possible comments if they are so willing.  Relaying through our host is a perfectly acceptable means of transmission.

Any thoughts on what you like or dislike about Navy or other uniforms?  

I'll leave you with one more look at what Juvat and Sarge just haven't realized is the best military uniform out there.  

My favorite family photo

* The Navy is now more uniform.  Black or brown tee shirts are required; no variability for squadron colors authorized.
**TAO – Tactical Actions Officer (fights the ship under the supervision of the captain)

34 comments:

  1. Other than not mentioning the tiara, great post. Tiara? Yes, tiara: https://www.mynavyexchange.com/tiara-e7-bullion-on-velvet/12171881

    https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-209-1340391248.jpg

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    1. The first time I saw a US NAVY Officer's tiara, I thought, " How odd ". I still think so.

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    2. I mentioned it, but only briefly towards the end.

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  2. An excellent post Tuna, lots of info I had no clue on. Yah, that last photo was clicked at just the right time....... :)

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  3. Those were band uniforms, though they almost look like Space Force uniforms.

    I have no data on how LUSH or The Nuke feel about the uniform changes for the ladies. Both are out, besides I think the only uniform LUSH ever cared for was her flight suit.

    Personally I prefer the old male/female uniform variants but I'm old, who cares? As to hair flowing freely while in uniform? Kind of a big-ass safety hazard in many areas, I doubt the ladies will wear it long inside an AFV or in other tight quarters with running machinery about.

    Nice look at Navy uniforms, Tuna. Thanks!

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    1. For the women, the WAVE cap was the best cap any military, anywhere, offered. Getting rid of it was a huge mistake. Right up there with the loss of dungarees and chambray shirts.

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    2. As for Lush and Nuke- I take it they aren't daily readers of Dad's blog?

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    3. I know, they're busy moms/career women.

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    4. Not to put too fine a point on it the flight suit isn't really a uniform; it's organizational clothing, made to perform a mission.
      The Navy continues to be silly, chasing some chimera of "cool"
      BG

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    5. Yeah, the 2POC and coveralls are the same. Chimera of cool- nice phrase.

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  4. I love that last photo, Tuna.

    I find the constant changes confusing at best and potentially unneeded at worst.

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    1. Thanks. It perfectly captures my family and their personalities.

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  5. If you are red-green colorblind like me (10% of males in USA) then the pants look pink. Do you own a Boat Cloak? If so, publish a picture, please- I bet you rock a Boat Cloak. Thanks

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    1. No aviators that I know ever owned one. Plus- too warm in the climes I was stationed in. They look great though.

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  6. You missed the obvious two. I loved the old old I wish I was a man recruiting posters. I bought mine at the Smithsonian Museum art shop and my uniform of choice was the standard old blue coveralls without belts or insignia. On ships that small everyone knew everyone anyway.

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    1. Great poster. I alluded to the one you mentioned: Shipboard Working Uniform (dungarees, now NWU, or 2POC, or coveralls)

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  7. Having worn most of the costumes Tuna mentioned, between 1964 and 1992, I concur with his comments. Never having been cloaked in blueberries, or whatever that black and khaki nonsense sailors are forced to wear now, I don't have experience, only contempt for those.

    But, when you sign up, obedience to orders and the specified uniform of the day leaves few options for individual dress preferences.
    JB

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    1. The flight suit was a great way to avoid wearing what I didn't like! I also had desert cammies when at CENTCOM.

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    2. You and I are of an era, JB. The Serbian MUP uniform (blueberries) and the idiot attempt to emulate USMC Charlies show us how far the Navy has drifted. The WWII style dungarees weren't great; the best shipboard uniform would be Nomex coveralls.
      Boat Guy

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  8. As to those different colored jerseys on the flight deck:

    BLUE
    JOBS: plane handlers, aircraft elevators operators, tractor drivers, phone talkers
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The blue jerseys operate motorized gear.

    PURPLE
    JOBS: aviation fuels, known as "grapes" or "fuelies"
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The purple jerseys refuel all aircraft and monitor all fuel onboard.

    GREEN
    JOBS: catapult and arresting gear personnel, air wing maintenance, ground support equipment, mass communication specialists, helicopter landing signals enlisted sailors
    RESPONSIBILITIES: Green jerseys operate and maintain all aircraft launch and recovery equipment and perform all support equipment and aircraft-related maintenance.

    YELLOW
    JOBS: aircraft directors, catapult and arresting gear officers, air boss, mini-boss
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The yellow jerseys are responsible for the movement of aircraft on the flight deck and in the hangar bay.

    RED
    JOBS: ordnancemen, crash and salvage crews, explosive ordnance disposal
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The red jerseys load aircraft with bombs, missiles, mines and ammunition. They also create crash and salvage crews responsible for aircraft firefighting, rescue and salvage operations.

    BROWN
    JOBS: air wing plane captains
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The brown jerseys maintain the safety and integrity of aircraft. They also man the cockpit during repositioning on the flight and hangar decks.

    WHITE
    JOBS: quality control, landing signal officers, air transfer officers, liquid oxygen crew, safety, medical administrative personnel
    RESPONSIBILITIES: The white jerseys consist of safety and medical personnel, catapult final checkers, catapult and arresting gear quality assurance inspectors and administrative personnel.

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  9. Tuna, Beg to differ with you on your last. The best uniform is the flight suit. Proof? All five services (Coast Guard) and most poblic service flyers wear it. Just like Trump, majority RULES!!!!!!
    juvat

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    1. Best to wear for sure. Best looking- dress me up and choke me. heh heh

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    2. I’ve always been a comfort over style kinda guy. I think the last time I wore a suit was my daughter’s wedding, 5 years ago. Haven’t missed it. But… CA has different rules than TX. Not better or worse, just different. I like our rules better. You’re free to choose yours.

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    3. I was wearing Mess Dress Whites for my wedding, but chokers were used for changes of command, dining ins/outs (if not the tux), special parties in foreign ports, and my retirement. Not super comfortable, but damn did we look good! Flight suit has it for daily wear, comfort, coolness, etc. No special rules here in Cali.

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  10. I'm with you, Tuna, even though I didn't serve. The look of a uniform is very important. I wonder if the USSF got approval from whoever owns the Star Trek copyrights!

    BTW....what are "Awards Quarters"? Special perk for being a good boy?

    drjim. Booger is acting weird again, and I can't sign-in./....

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    1. Just a command get-together, standing in ranks, for the specific purpose of giving out awards. As opposed to morning quarters where the plan of the day is covered and orders issued.

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    2. I liked the Enlisted Working blues, always heard them referred to as the "Johnny Cash's" , they were a bit more classy versus the working whites. I still think the Dress Blues as you mentioned are a great legacy uniform and I'm glad they haven't messed with it. I think the old Dungaree uniform was a good one, except when you were expected to have it starched and creased. As far as for comfort...I did prefer the BDU's.
      In the early days of "purple" Joint Commands, there was kind of a disparity between enlisted and officer, the enlisted were required to wear Dress Blues or Whites, to remind the other services that we were Navy and looked sharp, but the officers were allowed to wear khaki's. Speaking of Dress Whites, never liked the polyester, miserable in tropical locations.
      IS1

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    3. Thanks IS1, those BDUs in desert pattern, were pretty comfortable. Sweated through the shirt every day in Tampa, just walking to my car.

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  11. Great post, especially the last pic. Here's me dating meself again - I've always had a soft spot for the silver tan uni I was commissioned in. Blue hat, black shoes, brown bars. Then there was the PACAF ( and other places) ORANGE FLYING SUIT! Yaay. Hard to miss the guys in those. Thanks Tuna. D4 Fuzz

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  12. CVN-70 was my girl '87-'94, MM nuke down in 2 plant. So many stories...
    "Rat" Willard (movie TOP GUN advisor) was the XO who signed my "discharge" checkoff sheet. He remarked that I'd been onboard when he served on her in a squadron role, years before.
    Oct '94 I walked down her brow for the last time. Nice to know we may have walked the same passageways.

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  13. When Dad transitioned from the Pinks & Greens to Green Class As I did not like it (I was 2 or 3) and flushed all his black sox down the toilet. The post engineer was not too fond of me.
    If we widen the "competition" to other countries the Royal Marines and any given Highland uniform wins.

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