Well folks, there I was...a little bit burned out on Medal of Honor stories. I have a lot of respect for those guys, many of whom did not survive. But I was having trouble keeping the story and facts straight. So I took a break and started putzing around on my laptop looking for something I could use to entertain myself or maybe find a new subject to discuss on Sarge's Blog. Fortunately, I found a little of both.
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Artist conception of a 6th generation fighter Source |
As many of you are aware, our current, newest, Air Superiority fighter, the F-22 and the newest Strike fighter (primary mission is air to ground but has air to air capability), the F-35, are Fifth Generation Fighters. The Eagle is Fourth Generation and a bit long in the tooth, but her air to air kill ratio is 105-0. So gotta love her.
As I've mentioned here before, back in the day, my name was on the canopy rail of that exact F-15. Miss her I do.
While that Eagle and many of her sisters are still flying, what has become known as the "5th generation fighters" have become the backbone fighter force in the Air Force.
The F-22 and the F-35 both are operational fighters now. "Operational Fighters" is the terminology to describe the fact that they are currently handling "Real World" missions. However, due to budget considerations, the F-22 fleet, which had been planned for 600ish jets, is currently limited to 183.
The F-35 fleet has, at the time of this writing, 883 jets.
And recently, the first of the 6th Generation fighters has started to be developed and is expected to become operational starting in 2029. The number of jets of this next generation to be built under the plan is 185. Seems a bit small to me, but I'm sure they are hideously expensive. Hopefully, they are equally extremely capable.
I now have a very good idea how my father felt when I told him I was going to be flying the F-15. He had been an F-86D pilot.
My how time has passed! Quite a difference wouldn’t you say?
We shall see what will be. Peace out y'all.
Addendum: Regular reader and commenter Nylon found an additional fighter being developed an F-15X. Info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F-15EX_Eagle_II
Sources
https://militarymachine.com/f-47-ngad-sixth-generation-fighter
https://aviationnews.eu/news/2025/07/meet-the-f%e2%80%9147-americas-sixth%e2%80%91gen-stealth-fighter/
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/screen-shot-2020-09-15-at-12-31-41-pm-1600198341.png?crop=1xw:0.887120651369356xh;center,top&resize=1200:*
https://simpleflying.com/how-many-f-35s-in-service/
https://www.militaryupdate.net/2025/09/how-many-f-22-raptors-does-us-have.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F-47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/456th_Fighter-Interceptor_Squadron
Sixth gen fighter....."three times the cost of a F-35" according to the Wiki on the F-47.......sheeesh! Interesting Wiki reading on the F-15EX Eagle II juvat.
ReplyDeleteNylon,
DeleteThanks, I missed that link. Interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F-15EX_Eagle_II) for those interested.
juvat
While reducing your signature is a good thing (tm) in warfare, it is something we develop say today, then spend a decade building them.
ReplyDeleteSNIP The F-35 Lightning II originated from the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, which began in 1995 to create a versatile, fifth-generation multirole fighter capable of replacing multiple legacy aircraft across the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps. Lockheed Martin’s X-35 demonstrator was selected as the winning design, with its first flight on October 24, 2000
SNIP The United States began selling the F‑35 Lightning II to foreign customers in 2002, shortly after winning the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) competition.
Meanwhile everybody else is looking at our "New Design" and figuring out how to find them better. Seems the current way to detect stealth aircraft is orbital satellites from their rather massive IR signature from those jet engines.
Meanwhile economics raises its rude head at the "Projected Cost vs the Real Cost Before NEEDED Upgrades.
SNIP The F-35 fighter jet costs between $82.5 million and $109 million per unit, depending on the variant, with full operational packages reaching $150–220 million.
6th Gen a mere 3 X the coat of a F35....
I'll be nice and not run the numbers on the S400 missile battery but it's cheaper for a whole battery than 3 F35's.
Michael,
DeleteAll interesting commentary thanks. A lot of info I did not know.
juvat
I have enjoyed the MOH posts. Even though I am retired USAF I had little to do with equipment that had tail numbers. I just provided the guys that did with comms.
ReplyDeleteTSquared
DeleteI think comms comes in 4th in priorities behind jet, engines and weapons and not much behind. So…thank you for your service. Well done!
juvat
Back in the days just past Orville and his brother, we used to fake "radio out transmit" to see how long it took for the controller to play with us. This was in the days of Deuce flying (0.05 generation fighter). Flying around at night, the bosses were at the stag bar, it was fun to build camaraderie with those guys. Of course, we were flying two ship GCAs (does anyone know what that is?). Ah the days of solo pilotage, just spin the engine and the shiny switches forward. I was slated for the F-86 at Perrin AFB Texas, but they changed their minds (!) and we got the Deuce.
DeleteFuzzD4
Fuzz,
DeleteNot sure I understand what was going on, but sees interesting!
juvat out
Am I correct to understand that the US fighter-bombers attacking Iran do not, usually, enter Iranian airspace but instead launch stand-off weapons from outside? If so does that imply that they are already semi-obsolete? Would another generation of manned fighters make any sense? Iran, Russia, and Ukraine seem to blow up lots of stuff without making much or any use of manned fighters.
ReplyDeleteDearieme,
DeleteI've been out of the game for a long time, so am not fully aware of all the new capabilities. I would assume that having a human on board would allow a measure of flexibility in targeting. That was the case back in the day. If a new, more valuable target was discovered, a piloted jet could re-target fairly easily, if a bit more dangerously. Again, I'm not familiar with new drone tech to state that as absolute truth.
juvat
Back in the day (this during the Cold War), I remember reading about the increased cost of military items between generations. It did not really stick with me then as a callow youth in college, but it does now that I look at the cost of such things.
ReplyDelete(Pretty cool to see a picture and know that you flew it!)
THBB,
DeleteWell...That's true, but BITD (Back in the day), something that cost us kids a dollar was very expensive. But, you're right, things are getting VERY expensive nowadays.
As to My Jet, I searched for F-15 pictures on Google and that was the first one that popped up. I think my Dad might have had something to do with that, along with his F-86 picture.
juvat
I think a Kuwaiti pilot would argue with your 105 to 0 record.
ReplyDeleteCould be, my apologies!
Deletejuvat
From the USAF perspective, "not a pound for air to ground" is the focused goal of the "FIGHTER" guys who run things.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Navy perspective, it's more like "we gotta make the planes on a carrier work for anything, even if not perfection for any one of the missions.
From the Marine perspective- Eff that fighter stuff, send bomb trucks with lots of bombs. Warthogs forever!
While a 6th generation fighter is probably essential, some people are studying the Ukraine operations where a kludged together drone launched from a cargo container trucked to within a few hundred miles of a base can take out an exquisite state of the art aeroplane at a cost less than a new Toyota pickup. We may see more ward fought and won or lost due to logistical or manufacturing capacity issues due to drone attacks than being resolved in aerial combat with manned fighters.
Shooting down the other guy's fighters or bombers is a winning move, but not the only or maybe not even the best move any more.
UKR is crushing the Russian ability to win by nibbling away at the logistics train which supports the warriors. Fuel shortages for both civilian and military users are becoming serious. Heck, their attacks on the Russkie equivalent of Amazon probably really do cut into military logistics- especially for the poor Ivans enterprising enough to buy stuff there that the supply system cannot provide (for shortages, corruption or whatever reasons.)
The balance between manned and unmanned systems is evolving rapidly, especially the ability of tactical users, and then the strategic folks who seize the opportunity to fight wars in different ways. Those who cling exclusively to the old strategies, tactics and weapons will lose.
John Blackshoe
During WW2 Robert Watson-Watt, one of the leading lights in the development of radar in the UK in the immediate pre-war years was known for putting forward what was called 'the cult of the imperfect', what he said was 'you go to war with the third best, the best is never available and the second best won't be there on time'. The UKR forces have leveraged their advantages over the Russians and have used them ruthlessly and applied (IMO) a considerable amount of intellect into innovating weaponry. Did any of you military people really think that what was in effect large model aircraft, hobby drones and converted jet skis would be so effective? The UKR process of rapid innovation and adaptation as we saw in WW1 and WW2 will win over over bureaucratised procurement processes. Best to have a lot of stuff that is good enough now rather than waiting for the best that may never arrive.
DeleteRetired
Quantity has a quality all its own. Stealth has a place in the toolbox, but over-reliance on that could lead to disaster.
ReplyDeleteAgree with both Michael's and JB's comments above.
Agreed, Much as the Wild Weasels were first in last out, I'm thinking thats pretty sure this is the modern version
Deletejuvat
Big fan of stealth, but it's damn expensive. With drone tech going the way it is, I'm thinking warfare can evolve to the point of sending drones in to take out, or use up all the enemy's Anti-Air capability, then send in the hordes of less expensive fighters/ FA jets to strike what's left. It's a shame we stopped at 183 Raptors.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a strategy to mejuvat
Delete