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| The entrance to Bancroft Hall, 2018 |
Anyhoo. For the first time in a few years I did not watch the Army-Navy game on Saturday last. The Missus Herself had arranged a dinner meeting with another couple the week before the game, I agreed to said meeting. I like the other folks and the restaurant to which we would repair, so saying "yes" was something of a no-brainer. Until I remembered the game, the only college game I watch year after year.
For those wondering (even those who are not) Navy lost, and fired their coach the next day (maybe same day, I'm not privy to the timeline). A move which I thought overdue. A cuppla years ago Navy was trailing Army late in the game and 4th down came up. (Forgive me, those of you not familiar with this American sport, I'll explain in a foot note.¹ Yeah, that one.) In a close game that actually means something to those playing and to the thousands of graduates who attended either West Point or Annapolis, punting on fourth down wasn't what I thought of as "smart."
It smacked to me of "striking the colors" - to use a nautical expression². (Yup, 'nother foot note.) At which point I felt the head football coach, though an exceedingly nice guy, should have had his employment terminated. Admittedly, punting was the "safe" play, but it was relying on a defense which had proven rather deficient at stopping Army from moving the ball in the second half. That is, "well, maybe the defense will hold this time."
Nope, colors struck, game over.
Anyhoo (again).
This is rather meant to be a "What do you think?" sort of post. The chance for you, the readers of this here blog, to sound off on a topic. The topic being ...
The Service Academies
That is, those four-year colleges which are free of charge for those attending (other than committing a certain number of years of one's life³) and which upon graduation they are granted a commission in the service of the United States. (I was going to say "Armed Forces," but there is the Merchant Marine Academy, though they provide a vital service, they are not part of the Armed Forces).
I saw a comment over on the Book of Faces from a guy I respect a great deal, questioning the need for those schools to seek high level athletes for their sports programs at the possible expense of someone who is going to school there for to be an officer in the U.S. military. Certain allowances are made for some of those so-called "student athletes." Well, they are technically students but in reality their job is playing sports. Those same allowances are NOT made for others at the academies. What do you all think of that?
As a kicker, just to be difficult, I'll throw out my own thought on the service academies: if you wish to go there, be ready to sign a contract for twenty years. Otherwise go ROTC or OTS. Just my two cents.
What say you?
Now I'll kick back and watch, be nice, avoid profanity, and remember to turn the lights off when you're done.
¹ In American football, each time one has the ball, one is allotted four tries (downs) to make ten yards, or more. Getting that ten yards gives you four more downs to get another ten. Until you score, or can't make the ten yards. Typically, depending on field position, if one cannot make the ten yards on that fourth down, one kicks the ball (punts) to the other team. Then they get four downs, etc.
² In days of yore, during the age of sail, ships advertised their national affiliation with a flag, usually near the stern. In battle it was customary for the loser, not being able to get away for some reason or another, to haul down said colors to indicate one's further unwillingness to fight. Oft times the colors might get shot away, but a ship determined to fight would somehow get a set of colors back up again. To "strike the colors" meant "I surrender."
³ Depending on whether or not we get in a war, it might be committing the rest of one's life due to being killed in action.
Well now, Sarge...quite a topic. Like you, the Army-Navy game is usually the one I watch, have for some years. While overseas I watched as the token "Navy guy". This year, I missed it as well. Now, I really could care less about the "program" and don't follow the team or their coaches at all. I'm sure there are those recruited merely as athletes and as society at large has decayed I expect there are "allowances" made for the jocks as at other colleges. I know there have even been athletes released from their service obligations to "go pro" which is an absolute travesty.
ReplyDeleteOne of my attractions to the game was the idea that "These guys actually have to go to class and still be good on the field. Most of them can't go pro, because they have to serve for four or so years." . I expect that is still true for a lot of the guys who aren't "stars".
As for the service academies themselves; I have mixed opinions based on serving with graduates of each. Some generalizations:
-The very best officers I have served with have (with rare exceptions) NOT been academy grads.
- I have served with some very good academy grads and a number of miserable sunsabitches.
- The latter group could not adapt to the service but instead wanted the service to adapt to their academy experience.
- Few of the academy grads had any experience with "real life" until they retired.
Personally I had an opportunity to qualify to attend the Naval Academy through Prep School. My father (still the smartest man I've ever known) advised against it; "If you want to go to college, finish your hitch and do so". One of the times I was smart enough while young to need his advice, which has always proven to be good. He had an opportunity to attend West Point and declined, paid his way through CalTech, through GI Bill and Guard service.
My $.02. Standing by for comments.
Boat Guy
Your experience is similar to mine. Both of the older kids were accepted at the Naval Academy, both decided to go ROTC instead. My son's reasoning, "Hey, four years with no life at the Academy, and I get a reserve commission. Four years with a life in ROTC, and I still get a reserve commission.' His sister concurred with that assessment.
DeleteSarge, we are no longer referred to as "Armed Forces" but rather as "Uniformed Services" ;at least according to my ID card. That way we can include not only the Merchant Marine but also PHS - the folks with the tranny "admiral".
ReplyDeleteBG
Argh, don't remind me.
DeleteCrusty Old TV Tech here. Proud Det 305 AFROTC grad (GO DAWGS), and yeah, I have an opinion on service academy "ringer" athletes. NO. Take what you get by using your normal student filtering methods, and if that gives you a losing season or two, TOUGH NUGGIE! Your only purpose in life as a service academy coach is to train leaders. Winning football games is secondary, or maybe even tertiary. Football is a leadership development method for you, not an end in itself. If you want to coach a bunch of hand-selected athletes, go make your millions at any SEC school (COTT ducks as EllEssYou fans throw tiger droppings at him), NOT at a taxpayer-funded service academy!
ReplyDeleteRoger that!
DeleteI was not aware that the trade schools had special programs for "student athletes". From what I saw a big part of the schools was to give the officers that special "attitude".
ReplyDeleteI was not aware that you left the academy with a reserve commission after 4 years, learn something new every day.
It used to be a regular commission, now ...
DeleteTimes change I suppose.
Sarge, I am not a follower of sportsball at all, but in the few instances I have seen it, the 4th down decisions now mystify me. People punt when (in the past) they would have made a try, and make a try when they should punt. Absolutely no insight into why, other than it is different.
ReplyDeleteFrom the local Large University Level, the idea that there are some students that are not brought in specifically to play sports is laughable. It is their job - they are catered to, supported, and protected in a way similar to any star in any industry. That said, I do not know that this should be the point of the Service Academies (honestly, not even sure that them playing sports in any way seriously makes sense - but that is just me).
Having not served in the military, I cannot comment on the Service Academies in any sense, except - as a taxpayer - to wonder if we get our money's worth out of them. In a comparison such as you suggest with ROTC versus Academy, how do they serve? What is their retention rate after the initial investment? What do they go on to do? Perhaps most importantly, is the program producing the sorts of military minds we need for the modern world? I do not have the answers, but that is how it would make sense to judge the output of any other college program.
Your last paragraph is insightful, those should be the criteria for judging the job the academies do. If ROTC/OTS are superior, why bother with the service academies?
DeleteA decade ago (some what) a federal budget review board looked at the cost of the Merchant Marine academy and at ~ $140 million a year (then) and a lack of shipping jobs for the graduates, recommended the place be closed. The review board members barely kept their jobs when congress discovered the recommendation. Seams the federal academy's exist solely to give the sons and daughters of big campaign donors something to do after high school...!
DeleteI have seen no evidence of that. Do you have a source for that report?
DeleteJust my one penny:
ReplyDeleteI had always thought that those who made it to (and graduated receiving a regular commission) the service academies devoted their entire lives to the "line" in their respective services, whereas the rest of us in the jockstrap (uh! support personnel) went to college and then on to med/dental/law etc. to receive a reserve commission when we volunteered; IOW, only line officers would ever be offered a regular commisson..
Rewording all the garbled nonsense above, it was my belief (erroneous or no) that the graduates of a service academy were going to make "the art of war" their (lifetime) profession; the only reason that the academies produced graduates at taxpayer expense - to stand ready to defend the country at all times. My error.
Perhaps an error in understanding the way it is, not an error in understanding the way it should be. Academy grads should do 20, or go elsewhere. Just my opinion.
DeleteI dunno about "do 20". The Point did rather well, in the past, with folks who resigned their commissions (e.g., Grant and Sherman) and then returned to service. Spot on about "recruiting athletes".
DeleteI don't want every ringknocker around for 20 years; do the obligated time of 4,5 or 6 years and then compete to stay via FitRep like everybody else. The last thing we need is some 20-year sinecure for "perfumed princesses". The good academy types were very good; but the bad ones were awful.
DeleteI don't recall when the NavCads got Reserve vice Regular commissions but perhaps that's one way of culling the herd; we ROTC and OCS types had to apply for "augmentation" at some point. I declined to do that, preferring to keep my options open; sound up serving 25 years in Active Duty in a career that was "highly irregular".
Boat Guy
"wound" vice "sound". Stupid machine. BG
DeleteAuld Soljer - Well, those guys were exceptional soldiers. An ever increasing rarity in my estimation.
DeleteBG #1 - I see your point, I just don't think the taxpayer is getting their money's worth from the academies these days. Sounds like you had an interesting, albeit unorthodox, career.
DeleteBG #2 - I hate it when that happens. (All too often in my case ...)
DeleteOh Sarge; "interesting, albeit unorthodox" is a good start. OpSec prevents me from going into detail except in meatspace.
DeleteA goodly bit of it was pretty fun at times; I worked with and for some amazing SOF folks, most of them Army SF.
Now boron seems a bit confused as to what "line" means - at least with respect to the Navy. A Line Officer is an Aviator, Submariner, Special Warfare (SEAL) or Surface Line (ship driver). The first three are warriors, though we are glad the submariners have not had to go hot. Surface Line has not really gone to war since 1945 - and it shows
Boat Guy
True, launching missiles from a country away, while nasty, isn't really why we have a surface Navy.
DeleteUSMMA graduates are commissioned as Ensign, USNR.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the USMMA Wikipedia page (yes, take it with a grain of salt):
DeleteA graduate from USMMA receives upon graduation:
A Bachelor of Science degree,
An Unlimited USCG License as a Merchant Marine Officer, either 3rd Mate or 3rd Assistant Engineer, and
A Commission as an ensign in the U.S. Navy Reserve Strategic Sealift Officer Program, or if accepted on Active Duty, as an ensign in the U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, or National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or as a 2nd lieutenant in the U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, or U.S. Space Force. Graduates who choose military service must serve at least five years in the active duty force of their respective service.
Emphasis above is mine, a commission in the USNR is not automatic.
It was when I graduated.
DeleteThings change, not always for the better.
DeleteSorry, me again; I spent 35 years shipping in the merchant marine and some how maintained some memories. Again a long while ago, a California Maritime Academy ship mate told me of an attempt by California budget cutters to close the institution. The Cal Maritime Alumni association got wind and provided documentation to the state the it would be unwise to close the institution as 88% (IIRC) of the grads work for the State or local governments.....
ReplyDeleteCorruption at the state level is easier to pull off.
DeleteSarge,
ReplyDeleteYour son's comment. When did academy grads start getting reserve commissions? They used to be Regular commissions and a guarantee of 30 years if they stayed. ROTC and OTS got Reserve commissions and 20 years with the option of being selected for Regular.
That distinction was one of the reasons, many Academy grads were not "well received" by their peers. My UPT class was all ROTC until an Academy grad washed back due to a medical problem. His attitude was he was "Bigger, Better, Faster, Smarter" than all of us. All of us graduated and were commissioned as the #1 (maybe #2 if the class was large enough) grads at our respective schools. Suffice it to say, he was expecting a fighter on graduation because...of course! There was a large round of applause when his assignment to B-52s at Minot was announced.
There were good guys (ladies were not given the UPT opportunity yet) and bad ones in both groups. Most of the bad ones were edged out. Some however...Are still in, and our current leadership seems to be rife with them. Don't get me started on that topic. Blood Pressure donch'a know?
I'm not sure but it changed again in 2006. Interesting.
DeleteRoger Staubach attended Anapolis, graduated, served in the Navy (including a tour in Nam) and then went on to a great career in the NFL. Of course, his coach there was Tom Landry, who was unlike most football coaches today (pro and college).
ReplyDeleteA very rare exception.
DeleteA granddaughter wants to go to the Naval Academy. She is well qualified. Honor student since first grade and ending high school NROTC as a LTC. I am encouraging her to go ROTC. She shouldn't have any problem at nearly any university she wants. My selfish reasoning is our Armed Forces have been so degraded by the left when we enter a shooting war for real the casualties will be horrible. I want her in the far rear doing aerospace stuff.
ReplyDeleteA friend has two sons who are Academy graduates. One Merchant Marine, the other Air Force Academy. Neither has perused a career beyond their obligation.
I actually like the Naval Academy, one son-in-law went there and retired as a Commander. The other son-in-law did OCS, is now a Commander within a few years of retirement. Both are pilots. All three kids did NROTC at the College of the Holy Cross. I have friends who went to West Point. I knew a few officers in the USAF who were Academy grads, a mixed bag as Boat Guy mentioned above.
DeleteIf she does decide to go ROTC, have her check the reputation of the detachment closely. My kids had some definite opinions on the relative quality of ROTC detachments. Some are really good, some, quite frankly, suck. No matter the commissioning source, any conflicts in the immediate future are going to be dicey. Our current flags are collectively about as effective as the French Army generals in 1940. IMHO
"...as effective as the French Army generals in 1940." Would that they were at least THAT good!
Deletejuvat
Well, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt ...
DeleteWith depressingly rare exceptions (single digits) they do not deserve "the benefit of the doubt" Sarge
DeleteGood advice on the ROTC Dets. I would counsel against a service academy these days; in fact, I have.
Boat Guy
Depressingly rare exceptions, aye.
DeleteHere's my two cents worth: Close and burn down the places as long as they have actual and practical communists and socialists and anti-USAians working and teaching there. The Service Academies should be hot-beds of rabid patriotism and 100% support for the American Way of Life.
ReplyDeleteSimple way: Have the teachers and students do a paper on, oh, say, the fundamental basics of the Bill of Rights and how it pertains to the modern world and how states and the federal system have subjugated many of these rights. Pass/Fail. Either they get all 10 right, or they're out.
Weed out every leftist commie/socialist from ground up. Gone. Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you on your arse.
The Service Academies should not be teaching all the left-wing moonbat bullscat. Critical Race Theory should be 'Humanity in whole is the Only Race We Care About.' Same with Diversity and Inclusivity and all the rest. Simple choice - Are you an American Citizen? If yes, then shut up, if No then go the copulation away. There will be no segregated by 'race' bullscat. There is only one color combo acceptable - Red, White and Blue through and through.
Minimal standards across the board. Bad physical ability? Nope. Tad bit slow? Nope. Mental issues? Nope. Only the best and brightest should be going to the academies.
Student athletes? First be a good student in good standing then go do sports.
The Service Academies should be churning out the core of the officer class. The go-to for that guy or gal who is competent, well rounded, and focused on their service's goals. A degree first in Service Stuffs, then a minor in whatever else it is if it pertains to the Service (no gender studies, no liberal arts bullscat. English minor in literature pertaining to war and service, okay. English minor pertaining to people who think they are purple butterflies, nope.
Want to be a uniformed scholar? Go ROTC. Want to be a well-educated mean-arse occifer? Go Service Academy.
If this means that the class sizes are cut in half, then so be it. If this means that the class sizes are cut to 10%, then so be it. Quality of mind and body over quantity of uselessness.
If this means the Service Academy sports team sucks, well, balls, then so be it. Rather have someone graduate with the ability to learn to do their damned jobs for the nation than to see yet another sports-money-ball idiot.
Other than that, yeah, glad the coach got shown the door.
Oh, same all-above should apply to the private military academies also, like VMI or The Citadel. Quit pandering to the lowest common denominator.
Bear in mind that most, if not all, of the bullshit permeating the Academies these days flows down directly from the flags and the Administration. It's sad that some at the Academies embrace that shit. sadder still that the Gottverdammte generals and admirals pimp that nonsense. But I can't disagree with anything you've said above. We live in disorganized and idiotic times.
DeleteI'm aware of academy athletes being recruited, and following a different path to an appointment than the rest of the class. That means they aren't competing against the best and brightest for entrance, but they have to meet the minimums, which are surely more stringent than Big 10 and SEC schools. I don't think they are given an easy ride towards graduation, at least at USNA, and they all receive a Bachelors of Science degree. But how much academic help they get over their 4 years I don't know. I'm ok with athletics, but only if they meet the requirements.
ReplyDeleteYup, only if ...
DeleteSarge,
ReplyDeleteAs a young Boy Scout, I visited West Point on a camping trip/tour and the hook was set and I came home with the goal of attending as a Cadet. Unfortunately, my grades convinced me to seek other military careers. I am a prior enlisted Navy veteran, never been to college and parlayed my military training/experience (Fire Controlman) into a pretty good civilian career for the past 25+ years. I have been fortunate to have served with both outstanding commissioned Annapolis graduates and ROTC graduates, and unfortunately very poor leaders from both commissioning paths. I did notice that the professionalism and mission focus seemed to be more prevalent with the Annapolis types, but not across the board. However, I do believe that there should be service academies, with the sole focus of educating and preparing Leaders and Warfighters for the armed forces. (I also believe that all Cadets/Midshipmen should be prior enlisted, my $0.02). Though sports and/or extra curricular activities can be beneficial in an educational environment, they need to take a back seat to the focus on warfare. If any service academy sport, activity or leader-professor detracts from the goal of producing the very best commissioned officer to lead the Troops, deep six them!
A NJ NavyVet
Sound wisdom!
DeleteUnless it's changed; all mids and cadets are supposed to go out for an intramural sport. I think those activities broaden an individual.
ReplyDeleteI've seen USAFA cadets skydiving, piloting gliders, and flying light aircraft; all of those make sense as it does for mids to sail.
There is much to be said for the young'uns having time in the ranks, but regardless the academies are hothouses and "leadership" there does NOT translate to leadership in the field. That is for the O-1's to learn from senior enlisted; IF they are fortunate to have good ones. As with every thing else these days the NCO ranks are greatly diminished.
Boat Guy
Agreed.
Delete