Really?
How'd that work out for those folks in Florida?
They had an armed School Resource Police Officer on Campus and three additional officers arrived very shortly there after.
And did nothing.
In my mind, that should be the final nail in the "gun free" zone argument. If the police cannot be relied on to protect me, then I am the only one I can rely on to protect myself.
1. Take down the sign. 50% reduction in probability of incident
2. Put up one that says "Our Faculty and Staff are authorized to carry weapons and trained to use them." 85% reduction in probability of incident.
3. Make it so. 98% reduction in probability of incident.
Seems pretty logical to me, but the only thing Logic and Leftist has in common is the L at the start of each.
Given that, I'm going to stop, regroup and post about something that isn't going to generate a migraine and push my blood pressure into the Danger Zone.
Over the past couple of years, I've posted a few times (ok, three, here, here and here) on Operation Tidal Wave, the effort to deny Nazi Germany Romanian petroleum products. It was only in the last post, that I discovered a video (narrated by Captain Ronald Reagan, USAAF) that provided a better interpretation of that effort.
15th Air Force was engaged in an ongoing campaign to deny the Nazi's that petroleum. Not only was there a preliminary raid in June of 1942, that was in fact the first bombing raid against targets in Europe by the USAAF, but there were ongoing regular strikes against the target throughout the war until Romania eventually surrendered.
While not as catastrophic as the losses taken in the 1 Aug 1943 raid there were still significant losses. Until the end, Ploesti was a dangerous place to attack.
It was on one of these raids on 9 July 1944 that the 6th Medal of Honor was awarded to someone who had attacked Ploesti.
 |
| This is NOT his Liberator, but came off the line 3 planes afterwards. Source |
1LT Donald D. Pucket was the pilot of a B-24G Liberator tail # 42-78346 on this raid. I have been unable to find information leading up to the attack, but immediately after releasing the bomb load, the bomber is hit by AAA, knocking out two engines, setting the oxygen system on fire and killing one of the crewmembers and injuring 6 others. It has also caused AvGas and hydraulics to leak into the bomb bay.
Lt Pucket regains aircraft control and begins exiting the area, then hands control over to the co-pilot while he goes back to assess the situation. The damage has jammed the bomb bay doors closed, but he manages to use a hand crank to get them opened, so the gas and hydraulics can dissipate. He administers first aid and gets the crew to start jettisoning things in an effort to reduce weight and try to keep the aircraft flying.
Eventually, it becomes obvious that this is a futile effort and he orders the crew to bail out. Unfortunately, there are 3 crewmembers who refuse to jump. The citation says this was due to "uncontrollable fright or shock".
Now, here is the conundrum. 1 of your crew is dead, all but three others are bailing out, and those three refuse to leave. You know the airplane is not going to fly much longer, there is no hope of landing it.
The three who refuse to leave are doomed.
Do you bail out with the rest of the crew and leave them to the fate they chose?
Not if you're Lt Pucket.
 |
| Source |
He climbs back into the cockpit and tries to fly the aircraft.
Unfortunately, shortly thereafter, they are unable to clear a mountain and crash killing all 4.
I doubt anyone would have questioned his decision if he'd have bailed out. However, I'm impressed with his sense of honor that he would have preferred to die trying to save those crew members rather than spend the rest of his life wondering "what if?"
I suspect those Deputies in Florida are doing that right now.
Lt Pucket's Citation:
"He took part in a highly effective attack against vital oil installation in Ploesti, Rumania, on 9 July 1944. Just after "bombs away," the plane received heavy and direct hits from antiaircraft fire.
One crewmember was instantly killed and 6 others severely wounded. The airplane was badly damaged, 2 were knocked out, the control cables cut, the oxygen system on fire, and the bomb bay flooded with gas and hydraulic fluid.
Regaining control of his crippled plane, 1st Lt. Pucket turned its direction over to the copilot. He calmed the crew, administered first aid, and surveyed the damage.
Finding the bomb bay doors jammed, he used the hand crank to open them to allow the gas to escape. He jettisoned all guns and equipment but the plane continued to lose altitude rapidly. Realizing that it would be impossible to reach friendly territory he ordered the crew to abandon ship.
Three of the crew, uncontrollable from fright or shock, would not leave. 1st Lt. Pucket urged the others to jump. Ignoring their entreaties to follow, he refused to abandon the 3 hysterical men and was last seen fighting to regain control of the plane.
A few moments later the flaming bomber crashed on a mountainside. 1st Lt. Pucket, unhesitatingly and with supreme sacrifice, gave his life in his courageous attempt to save the lives of 3 others."*James Mattis
Sources
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/9-july-1944/
https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/sreference/military-service-of-ronald-reagan
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/ploesti.htm
http://www.historynet.com/ploesti-the-rest-of-the-story.htm
http://theirfinesthour.net/2014/07/first-lieutenant-donald-d-pucket-usaaf-july-9-1944/
http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2958/pucket-donald-d.php
Agreed with everything you said re: police and guns. Lawdog had a entry on 2-24-18 that nailed it. Also a somber rest of your post, duty..crewmen bonds..... led to the ultimate sacrifice by 1st Lt. Pucket.... more words fail me.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna have to track that one down. Thanks.
DeleteConcur most whole-heartedly on part one of today's post. As to the second...
ReplyDeleteGuys like that amaze me. They have the confidence and the skill to perhaps save the aircraft, and the crew left onboard. But in the back of their mind, is there a little voice which tells you that this is it, this is the day you don't come back?
Brass ones 1Lt Pucket, RIP Sir.
I don't know the answer to that question. There are lots of stories of guys with premonitions before a sortie who didn't come back. Thankfully, that never happened to me. (Obviously)
DeleteMy only thing with schools and guns, how is the cop going to identify you as a good guy with a gun? He knows there is a gun present with a bad guy, he sees a hand with a gun. Is it a good hand/ or the bad guy? To stay alive he takes no chance. If I was to do such, I would invest in a bullet proof vest first.
ReplyDeleteGood point, having watched quite a few of these events being drilled, the first thing I've seen the cops do is scream "police". At that point, unless I was actively engaged with the shooter, I'd drop the gun and put my hands as high in the sky as I could get them. That having been said, the risk is very real. However, God Forbid, if there actually was a shooter in the school, I'd rather have a way to defend myself and hope the police are well trained, than hope the police get here before the shooter finds me and my kids.
DeleteThe purpose of having armed persons in the school is that by the time the cops show up to yell "Police" and get all 'hut-hut-hut' the incident will be over one way or another. Shooter is down or shooter is on the run or greater number of people escape.
DeleteExactly. 2 minutes for the police to arrive compared to 2 seconds to draw and aim a weapon can be a lifetime (literally).
DeleteThere is great and sad truth in the statement, "When seconds count, cops are minutes away."
DeleteAnd the added, unspoken line, "And SWAT is 2 hours out."
The only one you can reliably rely on for self-defense is you.
I would guess, it's the same as different sides of a coin. Hunt or keep the children safe. They are not safe, if you are involved in the hunt. If the hunt comes to you, you are justified by any method. But securing the hunted means open exposure, and actively looking for those being hunted. I guess I'm still an rescueman at heart.
DeleteBut, the knowledge that there are guns in the school to be used against the bad idiots is a deterent. Just by having weapons on site will stop a great number of actions.
DeleteThe concept of mutually assured destruction is not just part of nuclear deterrent. It also pertains to the concept of the armed citizen.
Well, one hopes that the great unwashed in flyover country sees this tragedy for what it was, colossal failure of big government. One hopes and one prays.
DeleteSeveral of these murders have involved young wack jobs that are not current students, and most occur in the morning and as classes are just starting. The first defense should be geared to keeping out people who do not belong and extra caution should take place before school starts.
ReplyDeleteDo not be afraid to profile...everyone of these atrocities has been caused by a white male...always a bit geeky and often with pimples and crazy eyes.
If there are qualified willing teachers, custodians or administrators to carry, they should be encouraged to do so. Schools should clearly advertise that some such employees are armed and trained (even if there are no such people, much like you never know if there is a Marshall on your plane.) Students should all have an id card that registers on a computer as they enter the school (makes attendance taking easy) to keep out people who do not belong, and most communities could have an officer or two at each school checking backpacks and such every morning instead of other patrol duty. All of these are actions that can be taken at a local level.
Federally or state wide we need legislation to limit the ability of the wrong people having access to guns and especially weapons not suited for hunting, recreational use or protection...like an Uzi for instance. Also, it would be nice if we could once again take people off the street because their sanity was a threat to themselves and others.
I don't disagree, although I would say that VA Tech, the night club in Orlando and Santa Barbara were not white males.
DeleteOn a lighter note, the one time I got to shoot an Uzi....it was very fun and recreational! But your point is taken.
Noted; though I was thinking specifically of school shootings; College campuses, night clubs, office buildings, movie theaters, concerts and such are a different animal, just as scary though and maybe more difficult to stop a determined terrorist or nut bag (is there a difference?).
DeleteI'll bet firing an Uzi would be fun, but it would scare the crap outta me. I'd be turning around like, "What did you say?...Oops, sorry!"
Yes...well there is that!
DeleteWhat's the going rate on an actual full-auto Uzi sub-machinegun, and not the long-barreled semi-auto carbine? $10k? 12k? 15k? Plus the paperwork and nearly 1-year time for the ATF paperwork and background check. My mother-in-law still doesn't believe that you can't walk into Cabela's and walk out 15 minutes later with this, and you wouldn't believe the grief I came in for when I pointed out to my sister-in-law that "arming teachers" doesn't mean arming all teachers and effectively conscripting them, only allowing those with CCL who choose to be qualified and armed .. to be armed. You would think I'd advocated for the killing and eating of kindergartners. I'm beginning to thinkf my wife is a pod-creature, based upon her near kin lately. Thank God for me, she is...
DeleteWhy the madness over the last 20 years?
ReplyDeleteBecause of several reasons.
DeleteDecrease of institutional controls is one. Broward County School District implemented in 2012-13 measures to reduce the percentages of students, especially of one particular minority makeup, of being expelled or arrested due to actions on school grounds. The (Br)Coward County Sheriff's Office also entered into 'diversionary' programs to reduce the numbers of minority juvenile arrests, not by stopping the pre-crime, but by administratively decriminalizing crime up to and including armed robbery and assault of all varieties. Both organizations received, by the way, huge grants from the current at the time Department of Justice under mrmblemrmbmlemble. You know who, and how high that thought process went (I feel that we will be paying for the previous administration's stupidity for the rest of our lives, if not with our very lives.)
Other states and school districts were also encouraged, either by their own politicians or by huge amounts of FedGrantMonies, to not report actual crimes of minority juveniles.
And when you add in that the last administration considered juveniles to be up to 25yoa (seriously, I worked at a copshop and did fed paperwork) then that screwed up reporting to NICS, which meant that, yep, offenses that should have been on the Florida Shooter's records for denial of purchase were not ever recorded, along with tens of thousands.
Clinton's administration started the 'donotreportminority' crime along with the 'Do not report crime from the military' program that resulted in that stupid AF dude getting access to guns legally when he shouldn't have.
Then there is the increase of mood stabilizing drugs, all which have a minor but deadly side effect of causing burning rage and uncontrollable anger and really screwing up thought processes in a very small but critical percentage of patients.
Then there are all the gun restrictions. I remember growing up knowing that if I went into some farmer's field and tried messing with his livestock, most likely I would get shot. Heck, I remember school rifle teams and people having pistols, rifles and shotguns in their cars. Nowadays, if someone sees a math symbol that looks like a gun there is a mass peeing-of-oneself event.
And there is the lack of taught control. I grew up in a house full of love, but if I stepped out of line my ass was beat into next week. Gee, only took like 1 friggin time to realize that good means I don't hurt and bad means my ass is in next week. Kids today? How many times do you hear a 3-4 year old scream "NONONONO" in a store and the parent knuckle down? Well, many moons ago, Mrs. Andrew and I had the wonderful summer of watching one of my asshole BIL's two wolf children so they didn't go to child services while he played with his meth and crack addiction. We took the Wolfies to a buffet restaurant and told them if they behaved themselves, we'd go see a movie. We paid for the food (when the Mrs and I didn't have that much money) and were just about to get drinks when the evil ones acted up and wouldn't stop. Mrs. Andrew and I left, the two wolfies in tow, and we had PBJs for dinner. How many parents today do that? Heck, just look at what kids eat these days. I grew up eating whatever my parents fixed. They never fixed dumbed down food for any of us. Kids these days live off of processed chicken fingers, hot pockets and pizza rolls.
Then there is the unspoken of factor. Democrats. Seriously, every school or mass shooting in the last 20 years has been by a registered democrat or a child that follows democrats. No conservative, libertarian, republican, tea party person has been the shooter.
DeleteThen there is the 'InstaFame' of the current generation. Why spend 10 years getting a super advanced degree in science to potentially create something that the company you work for will take all the credit for, when you can blow away a bunch of people and be famous forever. And now we have idiots who are trying to 'better' the body count of the last idiot.
Makes me sick.
Dang, picked a heckuva time to take a coffee break. Well frickin' done, Andrew. I would have said "I couldn't have said it better myself" but the truth of the matter is I couldn't have said it as well, myself.
DeleteSorry, it's not a new thing. People have been blowing up churches, and schools since Christ was a corperal. Especially in the good ole USA.why is a good question. There have been many stories of why that person did it.
DeleteThe big thing, s frustration for a cause, and religion.but religion could be called a factor in frustration also. But naming a political party, you forgot the other side also. It's just as bad. All Clinton did was eliminate the black white on the criminal report, it didn't eliminate the attached photo record that showed Hispanic, or asian or Caucasian. That part was up to the local gang taskforce. But, with the limited computing power then, others could read the report better. And see the perp. Do not report, I thought that was a congressional mandate, written into law, lead by newt. As part of the criminal code overhaul.
I also need to add that in regards to the Democrats, in the last 20 years I have heard top democrat politicians call for the armed end of, well, me. Mr. White Conservative gun-owner. For 20 years me and my demographic have been vilified and blamed for every single problem from minority-on-minority crimes, bombings, mass murders, end of the world as we know it, all the time that the same democratic politicians have pushed through actions, laws and regulations that take away my money, my rights and my freedoms.
DeleteYet, even against all this railing against me and my peeps, we have done nothing except keep on trucking on.
As to what James Buchanan said, yes, anarchists have been blowing up churches, schools, businesses, and assassinating people from day one. Again, very few to none conservatives did any of this.
We have always had a problem with mental illness. We have always have had a problem with violent socialists/communists (yes, even unto the bright shiny days of the Mayflower Compact. Well, until my ancestors realized that communism sucked the big one and embraced capitalism like a new wife.)
Thanks, Sir Juvat. My mind has been in raging rant mode since I've watched more and more of my civil liberties get sucked away due to the actions of some dumb-ass loser.
Deletein fact in properly managed country even police doesnt need to carry firearms most of the time, see, UK in good old days when bobbies almost never carried weapons...
ReplyDeleteYou can get away with unarmed police if you have a civilized population. Once the people being policed don't follow the rules and go rogue, then being unarmed is just stupid.
DeleteIn the US, most cops in the big cities started out unarmed, but then the big immigration waves hit and you got one immigrant faction killing another, see the movie "Gangs of New York." Once that violence went down, many cops went back to being unarmed until the next big wave of violence.
The UK is a perfect example. Until way after WWII, the UK was mostly a homogenous society, where even the colored acted just like the whites, and were treated as such (generalization here, okay.) Once the influx of Southwestern Asians began, both with subcontinental Hindus and then the varius Islamic factions, the crimes that once were few and far between that warranted gun play (mostly caused by factions of the IRA) became commonplace and now there are definite no-go places where even the cops, fully armed, in force, won't go.
Civilization and Civility are what makes a place peaceful. Cops should be there mostly as aids and ticket writers.
Drugs also enter into it. I live in small town, Texas, have for 20 years. Nothing really happens here outside of the several thousand drunks during Oktoberfest. However, in the last couple of years, we've had one hostage situation with sustained gunfire being exchanged between the bad guy and the cops (nobody hurt, bad guy arrested) and then a traffic stop in which the police officer (husband of one of my former students) was shot and critically injured. High speed chase followed with the bad guy eventually crashing his car and getting arrested. Both incidents the bad guy was higher than a kite and in possession of a boat load of chemicals. The cops have gotten a LOT more careful than they were.
DeleteSo...even here.
Oh, yeah. The relaxation and 'normalization' of shit that kills you just disgusts me. Drug are bad, mkay.
DeleteBut then there is this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202164039.html
Well, as I said, I bet he and the others will spend the rest of their lives with "what if?" going on in their minds. If not, there truly is something wrong with them.
DeleteI am afraid I am expecting to hear of the suicide of Scot Peterson. 17 deaths is a lot to have on your concience, and the press will see to it that he is hounded into suicide.
DeleteI hope that isn't the case, but I suspect you may be right. Nothing good, or redeeming, would come of it.
DeleteThanks for making that fine American ( Lt. Pucket ) known to me.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the post.
Paul L. Quandt
As always, Paul, my pleasure.
DeleteHelluva story, and one not often told. Thanks! The 15th clanked when they walked, going back into that hellstorm more than once!
ReplyDeleteA lot more than once. And yeah, they did. Turns out that one of the pilots on the Tidal Wave mission "grew up" to be CJCS, General George Brown. Before my time, so don't know much about his accomplishments, if any. Tidal Wave would probably suffice for a lifetime of accomplishments.
DeleteTo be able to 'soldier on' to Death's bitter door itself is a special trait. Wish there was some genetic marker or some way to select for it, but since it is a function of one's soul, well, that's an unreadable subject. I have seen the most 'sainted' person shriek and run from conflict, while the most 'vile' of people have stepped up and done the deed.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your post on this subject, the subject of sacrifice and brotherly love. For that is what is was, a love of his fellow men who were going to die, alone, in their fears. And he tried, and ended up accompanying them to their final destination, probably leading those men, lost in their minds, to sanctuary of the highest order.
As the Army is wont to say. "Hoo-Ah!
DeleteMy pleasure.
I just finished reading "Ploesti - The Great Ground-Air Battle of 1 August 1943" by James Dugan and Carroll Stewart. Up to that time, it was the most meticulously planned bombing raid of WWII. It was also the prime example of how all plans turn to crap the moment they're put in motion. The plane with the lead navigator crashed into the Med. Sea which caused major headaches later in the mission. The German general in charge of protecting the refineries set up a layered defense of Ploesti that the planners totally missed and said that by coming in at low level would surprise them. The raiders paid a heavy price for that error in judgment. This is some tense, white-knuckled reading that will make you wonder how the planes got off the ground with all the extra weight of the brass being dragged into the air. Ploesti continued to be a major target for the rest of the war and was never completely knocked out. Brave men, those B-24 guys....
ReplyDeleteAnd, as for those LEOs in Florida, who feared death more than they feared cowardice, I hope they never have another decent night's sleep for the rest of their lives. I hope they lay awake at night, questioning their manhood while they listen in their heads to the sounds of what happened inside that school......
Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll look into it.
DeleteIt's amazing what some people will do for the sake of others. Individual cowardice I can understand (if abhor), but sometimes rationality takes second place to honor, discipline, or fear of letting your mates down. I remember one film that was shown in AFROTC at UF ~1981 that was so over-the-top "Rah-rah", especially when emphasizing how much Nazi POL production fell in Sept-Oct 1944 and strongly insinuated that it was due to the 15th Air Force, that I made a target of myself and pointed out that the oil fields fell to the Red Army at that time and production would have fallen regardless of what we did. We certainly helped, but man, did I feel I big red circle on my back after that. I deserved a lot of that circle, but that part really rankled. But the 15th Air Force was amazingly brave. Every bit as much as the 8th Air Force. Ploesti was a hard target, to be sure.
ReplyDeleteWars are rarely won in a single action. Most are won incrementally. Did 15th AF impact the Nazi war machine with its attacks on Ploesti? Without a doubt, production was reduced post attacks and assets were expended to repair the damage. Was it reduced even more when Romania surrendered and was occupied? Yes, yes it was.
DeleteI find the "XXX" won WWII arguments tedious. The Allies won WWII. Was Airpower crucial? Yes, as were submarines, carriers, Marines taking Islands to be used as Air Bases in the Pacific, landing craft, code breakers, code talkers, fighters, Tanks, almost a hundred Army divisions, the Russians, the Brits, the Resistance...The list goes on and on. Could we have won without some of that? Maybe, but it's irrelevant, we won with that. It was our strategy and it worked.
So, I feel your pain when you spoke out against the approved AFROTC story. BTDTGTTS.
I might've been a little sarcastic. That's not a good gambit in most settings, and definitely not that one.
DeleteMy high school's JROTC commander had flown B-24s in 15th Air Force. One of his last missions was over Germany and one of the boxes ahead of his was hit by Me-262s. He said was never so happy as when they apparently ran out of ammo before getting around to his box. He went on to fly B-29s, B-36s. and B-52s. He didn't think his odds against MiGs and then SAMs were any better than B-24 against Me-262s and flak. But he did like that B-52s had the range to make (planned) one-way missions a thing of the past, so there was that.
Thank you for putting the three cadets on your masthead. Such great action from three so young. They honor us with their very lives.
ReplyDeleteIt hurt to do that. They were too young to go so soon. They were unbelievably brave.
Delete