Monday, August 26, 2019

Back to our Roots

I'm writing this on Friday, after having watched the County Fair parade, because CINCHOUSE Admiral of the Fleet Mrs J has issued the execute order for OPLAN MoveMBD.  Said OpOrd will be commence NLT 1230Z 24Aug19 and will terminate when mission goals (ALL boxes moved, unpacked, contents stored in final location and debris removed) have been met or forces are exhausted but NLT 2130Z 25Aug19. (Edited.  OpOrd successfully executed, all objectives met, friendly forces established in new AOR, tasked forces returned to base.  Request immediate resupply of water, rations and sleep.)

Since force exhaustion is the much (much, much) more likely condition, I decided to get ahead of the power curve and put this post in the hopper on Friday.

The parade was very nice, not too hot, which is unusual as Texans in August can usually grill hamburgers on the hoods of their trucks.  Which I might have to try the next time I run out of charcoal for the grill.

We had invited two new Texans to watch it with us.  They had emigrated from the People's Republic of Washington (western edition) and were settling in to small town Texas.  I think they enjoyed it,  Mrs J and I certainly did.

Now that we're all caught up on the highlights of the week, I thought I'd discuss a subject that, as of lately, has been sadly lacking on what should be the main topic of this blog.  No, Beans, not battleships!

I mean Really? SHIPS?

AVIATION!

3 of the 5 Authors, (Yes, Beans, I know LUSH has not actually authored a post....yet.  Sarge has high hopes though) are Aviators.  Sarge fixed Aviation Training Aids, and Beans....Well, his father was an Aviator, so there!

So...To bring us back to our aviation roots....we'll focus on the Airplane group of what Mrs J and I have referred to as the "Boat Trip".
Wait, what's that thing on the right doing in an AVIATION posting Source

Clearly a much better suited picture to the topic. (That's a Kleenex box reflected on the HUD if you must know, I sometimes get teary eyed when I see things like this.)
An F-4C, as one can clearly tell because it has only a single bump protrusion on the nose as opposed to the double bump protrusion the F-4D had.
F-4D See the extra bump on the bottom of the nose?
Source
What was that protrusion and what is the difference in capabilities between the two?  I think it was a non-functional (by the time I got to the airplane) IR detector so don't really have a clue.  Ask Sarge, he'll know right down to the 1.21 gigawatt power requirements.

Here's Sarge and I discussing it back one day at Kunsan. I'm the young one in the historically accurate video reenactment.



But, as we're wandering around the park, I notice something very near and dear to my heart.





Yes, she's in the position of advantage behind the "Half-a-Jet".

What's a Half-a-Jet, juvat?

Well, it's only got one tail, one engine, two missiles and half the range.  Ergo.... And No, the object in the top right is not a quad-o-jet (8 engines, a bunch of weapons, and more range than endurable).  It's a Target!


As I got closer, I saw something which made this jet special,  Two specifically.  I've got to admit, I spent a long time there staring at her, basically doing the pre-flight walkaround.  I could hear Murphy whispering in my ear,  "Do it!  You know you want to!"

But I honored the yellow, do not cross, tape.  Besides there were no engines in it.  Probably no gas either.  But, I can dream can't I?

OK,  Time for Quiz #1

What is this Aircraft?


Be very careful on your answer.


There was another of my Favorite Aircraft outside also.



Unfortunately, she wasn't in too good shape.

The F-105 was damaged in Hurricane Katrina, along with Bean's favorite, the F-84G, and both have yet to be restored.  She weathered the storm itself, but I was told the storm surge afterward banged her around quite a bit.  The docent said that both aircraft will be repaired  as funds become available.


I believe that will probably happen, as this B-25 was being restored with someone actually working on it as we walked by.  A museum can only do so much at any one time.  The docent says this Southwest Pacific AOR B-25 (note the guns on the front)  will be restored to replicate a bomber from the Doolittle raid.  I think it's cool as is, but....I'm not in charge.  Shut up, and color, juvat.

So, Mrs J and I have been walking around outside on a very H & H day, it's time to go inside and cool off with all the coolness there in.

But before, that ... Quiz Question #2

In Air Force Terms, what is this object?






Picture was taken on a Battleship.  The Navy uses something feline like in their terminology.




It was used to get this aircraft airborne. 


Right next door, and you can see how close next door is above, is this aircraft.  One of my favorites.


Now, as I said, Mrs J had been touring outside for quite a while.  See those seats right up front.  Yes,  we sat there and watched the entire video regarding the Tuskegee Airmen trying to get our core body temperatures down to non-lethal levels.

It (the film) was actually fairly interesting.  As I expected, "just doing my job" was a common statement.  "just doing my job extraordinarily well and much better than expected by most" would have been how I would have stated it.

I used the 5'4" Mrs J as a indicator of how massive the Spad is.  I'd seen one when I was a kid at Webb at one of the graduations, but the memory of how big it is was colored by the fact that I was 12.

There was quite a bit of subtle humor in this section of the museum.


The Spad's (the A-1's unofficially official name.  It actually was the AD-4N Skyraider to the Navy) weapon's load.

Next door to the P-51 was this beauty.  Now, much like the F-84G is to Beans, this F-86D is to me for the same reason.  Dad flew them at Hamilton, where he met and married Mom and 2 days more than 9 months later, I arrived.  We all then moved to Kadena AB Japan where he flew them for 3 more years.


A little more subtle humor.  Sarge, if your bionic eye can't enlarge the Top Line on the chart enough, it says "Engine runs better with this removed".  I would certainly think so.
  
BTW the thing sticking down from the fuselage behind the nose gear is a retractable rocket pod.  This model was the first in the line of fighters to suffer from a really bad decision by the Air Force.  It was the first air to air fighter to not have a gun, being armed only with these rockets.


I hadn't ever seen an F-8 Crusader other than a model I'd built as a kid.  Cool airplane.  It's mission was air to air.  It had a gun.  And missiles.


Also in the vicinity was an A-4.  I knew quite a few A-4 drivers in my day. All said that it was a fun aircraft to fly, but couldn't go very far, very fast, stay very long or carry very much.  Other than that...

Now, this aircraft on the other hand, didn't suffer from the same restrictions.  Well...except for the "go very fast" one.  Carried a metric crap ton* of ordnance a very long way and delivered it in almost any weather condition...accurately.  I say almost because I don't know how accurate it would be in the midst of a hurricane.



Which brings us to Quiz Question #3


What is this weapon?  You're cheating if you scroll in!

They also had an F-14 and F-18 on display.  There was so much stuff in the hangar, and those aircraft are so large, I couldn't get a good picture.  However, I do have pictures from another venue we visited and from which most of the Navy aircraft above were borrowed.

So, stay tuned.

Addendum.  While shopping for
matériel for MBD's new encampment, I happened across this year's Christmas present for Sarge. It seemed appropriate.

Shhh! Don't tell him.


*Metric Crap Ton -  A very, very big weapons load.

71 comments:

  1. That thar’s an A-12. (The A stands for “Archangel”, because black projects need cool names.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can tell because it only has one seat, and has a pointier schnozz than the slow, heavy, can-barely-fly dog that is the SR-71.

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    2. Correct, but you only get a 33 on the quiz. One must answer all three questions or receive a zed for unanswered ones.

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    3. I got to chatting with the Docent I mentioned in the post. He said he'd had a SR-71 driver visit and say the difference between the two was the difference between a Corvette and a Cadillac. The Habu being the Cadillac. I enjoyed chatting with him. He was a Coastie Helo driver around Pensacola had some good stories about his practice sorties and bhe Blue Angel practice sorties. It was fun.

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    4. There's also a significant lack of decal craziness like a "USAF" splattered on it. And I too knew a Sled driver. His wife was German, his Brother in law worked for Lego and would ship a 2'x2' box per kid of Lego's latest and greatest every Christmas. You could not rattle him. He was the most mellow man I've ever seen.

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    5. Well, when you can outrun missiles even, what's there to get tense about?

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  2. Ya..... when you said be very careful re: question one I was wondering if it wasn't the SR-71, Battleship Memorial Park website confirmed that. Said website also states F-86L, not "D".... ? To quote 1978..... "Da plane,da plane." OK so there is more than one plane. More photos to drool over, that Spad really was ah.....Yuuuge! Don't know much about the Skyraider, off to learn more. Wonder how it compared in size to the SB2C. Well rainy Monday so not much to do outside today.......a thumbs up juvat.

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    Replies
    1. Innernuts tells me the A-1 and SB2C are virtually the same size, the Spad is a foot longer, a few inches more wingspan, and 1500lbs heavier.

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    2. Nylon, I coulda swore it was a D model, but it's probably a case of my seeing what I wanted to see. The leading edge wing flaps on this "L" model is the most visible difference between the two models. You can see the edge of them on the right wing in the picture of the intake cover.

      Thanks

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    3. I'm confused, a bear. How did the Helldiver (SB2C) enter the fight? The Air Force/Navy designations for their version of this aircraft was A-1/AD-4N. Not a criticism, mind you, just a question. I'm still recovering from moving this weekend and the brain isn't firing on all cylinders yet.

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    4. Nylon wondered how the Skyraider compared in size with the SB2C. Me, being bored, felt compelled to answer. (It probably enters the fight by flying downwards in an expedient fashion.)

      Delete
    5. Ahhhh Sorry, didn't look back far enough on the thread. Yes...Dive Bombers do enter the fight from above, the higher the better so as to avoid/minimize AAA exposure (HISSSSSSS!)

      Delete
  3. Can you confirm or deny the rumor that the rocket pod on the Sabre Dog features tubes the correct diameter for beer cans? So that guys who otherwise lacked adequate refrigeration could, ahem, load the pod, take off and fly around at altitude, and have refreshing chilled beverages at the end of the flight?

    When I was helping restore the F86D at the local museum, one of the old guys told me that, but I never know how much I can trust the old AF guys.....

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    Replies
    1. I hadn't heard that, although, knowing my Dad (and his son), he would definitely avail himself of God's refrigerator. Freezer if you tarried too long.

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    2. 'Test' flights of fighters were common in quiet areas of the Pacific during WWII. Test meaning the ammo bins are full of beer cans for the cooling effect.

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    3. Well Beans, desperate times call for desperate measures. And Yankee ingenuity....

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    4. The things in the rocket tray were also known as Mk 4 rockets. Fun to shoot. Went all over the place in "all" mode. When we left the services of PACAF (and JASDAF) flying the mighty F-102 Delta Dagger (see authentic image at left) at Itazuke AB, we all got ourselves a chromed 2.75FFAR with Squadron details painted on side. I still have mine. It can cause great distress in the mind of a snowflake/millenial.

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    5. Yes, they were. Mighty Mouse FFAR to be exact.

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    6. Shot a fair amount of Rockets at Holloman while an instructor there. Because there was a requirement for FACs to be "Fighter Pilots", LIFT had a short course for guys right out of UPT enroute to a FAC cockpit to "qualify" them as a "Fighter Pilot". Most of those rides were Air to Ground and the SUU-22s would be loaded with 6 BDU's and 4 Rockets. Since we couldn't instruct what we didn't know how to employ, the IP's had to qualify with rockets. So we spent quite a bit of time shooting them. Great fun, however, you are right, they had a mind of their own once launched. We'd review film after each mission, and it was not unusual for the pipper to have been on the target when launched and have it scored as "unscorable at 12" by the range officer.

      But, as I say, it was fun.

      Delete
  4. Ah, aircraft...

    Back to our roots, BTW technically we're all tied to aviation, Tuna was an NFO on the mighty War Hoover, a real Viking that one.

    I suppose I'll have to go cold turkey on the big, gray ships. Maybe submarines?

    Nice post juvat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, Boss, 3 of 5. Lush, Tuna, juvat, Uno, Dos, Tres.

      Carriers would be a good compromise.

      Thanks

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    2. I'd suggest submarines.
      I was going to suggest starting after the Turtle and the Hunley, and begin with the first true submersible that didn't rely on human power.
      I began my comment's research being positive that the first true submarine would be the Holland.
      But I quickly found out that the first submarine that didn't rely on human power was a french boat called the Plonguer and was launched in 1863.
      The period between the launch of the Plonguer in 1863 and the launch of the USS Holland (SS-1) in 1900 is rich with rapid advances in technology. That time included the launch of steam powered submarines in the late 1880s, and where steam powered submarines don't raise an eyebrow today, those boats ran on steam generated in a coal fired boiler and the boiler was shut down to dive.

      And sometimes they didn't come back up. Long before the peacetime loss of the Thresher and the Scorpion, the Navy lost the S-51 near Block Island when the boat was struck by a civilian ship. The S-51 was raised and the story is told in the book, "On the Bottom: The Raising of the U.S. Navy Submarine S-51"
      https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Raising-U-S-Navy-Submarine/dp/0451211510/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

      Lots and lots to think about.








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    3. Well...Fortunately, I do have unused pictures of a submarine, so I could still participate in "Sub Week" at the Chant.

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    4. "Sub Week" does sound like something you could submerge yourself in.

      Delete
  5. YF-12, as originally designed.
    That B-25 is a McKinney Commerce Destroyer. I always liked those, they even made the enemy complain. If I remember correctly, the Japanese complained that they were too destructive. Oh, yeah!
    Q2 - no clue
    Is that a Phoenix missile? Not sure.

    Good stuff Pitot Tube Checker!! Very well done!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to this site, both the SR-71 and YF-12 were two seaters. The A-12 was single seat.
      Yeah, The Nimitz has a Doolittle Raider exhibit. Were I on the Battleship Memorial Park board, I'd want it kept as is. As far as I know there are no other displays of that model.

      Thank you Sir.


      Thank you Sir.

      Delete
  6. Oops, I forgot:
    #1 YF-12
    #2 Catapult for launching spotter aircraft (like the Kingfisher)
    #3 AGM-65 Maverick (which model I have no idea, probably something I tested and juvat used to kill pickup trucks, I mean it's in a museum, juvat and I probably belong in museums...)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. O outta 3, a bear had it right on #1, #2's answer was to be given in Air Force Terms. #3 is not a Maverick. Sorry.

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  7. #3 is not a Maverick (wrong fins, wrong, um, butt?). Maybe a Walleye?

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    Replies
    1. Yup, wrong tail feathers. Gotta be an AGM-62 Walleye. Before my time.

      Delete
    2. a bear, No it's not a Maverick. However, your score on the quiz is now a 66. Keep on plugging there, Tiger!

      Delete
    3. Sarge,
      Yep, but copying from someone else's paper is not the Sufi Way!

      Delete
  8. OK

    Catapult

    Falcon

    Everything else has been answered by people smarter than I.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Captain,
      Well...yes, but the Air Force term for the object was required. You're gonna have to think like a snarky Air Force Fighter Pilot to get it right.

      #3 is not a Falcon, it's quite a bit bigger in size and somewhat more reliable.

      Delete
  9. I mean, if it’s not called something like a “Squid Chucker” ... Airman Salute?

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  10. 3 things to comment:
    -that B-25 was kinda precursor to A-10, just with dozen of single-barreled ma-deuces in nose isntead of modern gatling monster in 30mm
    -A-4s proved deadly in the hands of determined ARG pilots as late as in Falklands War... never estimate enemy by the age of his weapons (oh Battle of the Oslofjord, that proved the adage too)
    -SPAD was another inspiration of the A-10, with its kitchen sink delivery system philosophy... A-10 can carry most of the USAF TACAIR inventory in variety of configs

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    Replies
    1. And Congress just passed and the AF just accepted rewinging of the rest of the A-10 fleet. Warthogs forever!!!! Well, until we have viable anti-grav technology and other sci-fi handwaviums.

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    2. Pawel,
      -I agree with your first point. Which is why, IMHO, it should be preserved as is.
      -Most aircraft in the hands of a determined and skilled pilot will defeat a unaware or less than competent adversary even in a more advanced aircraft. The F-15 was infinitely more advanced than either the F-5 (Air Force) or A-4 (Navy). Since the Air Force/Navy Adversary Air (Aggressors was the terminology in my day, but I guess that's just meanie talk now) flew those aircraft against me many a time. When I was new to the Eagle, it wasn't a fair fight. I was a movie star more often than not. Fortunately the cost of losing was low (I bought the beer for the debrief). However, as time went on and I actually learned how to employ the Eagle, that started to change, and, I've got to say, Free Cold Beer tastes really good!
      As to the third, I've got nothing bad to say about the Warthog. Does its mission exceptionally well, but essentially only its mission and that's a drawback in times of diminishing budgets.

      Delete
    3. Beans,
      Yeah, I saw that, and that's a good thing for now. However, as I said to Pavel, as soon as somebody sees the Defense budget as a Bank for their pet projects, the fun will start all over again. BTW that's a problem for the F-15 and F-22 also. Not a pound for air to ground was Tony McPeak's stupidest moment, out of a large number of stupid moments.

      Delete
    4. There was also the WW2 B25G variant that carried a 75mm cannon. A British army officer aboard one on a recon in Burma noted that it was one thing to be briefed that the plane carried it, but quite another being in the air with these madmen preparing to actually fire it...

      Delete
    5. I can easily imagine A-10 one day rivalling B-52 in service longevity...
      I am appalled at F-22 production termination, leaving F-15 without heir as air superiority king.
      F-35 is fine weapon in its own right, but suffering from the "jack of all trades" syndrome, compounded by multi-service requirements, especially Marines STOVL...
      Newer versions of F-15 have taken a turn for multirole though. Korean and Singapore variants jump to mind...

      Delete
    6. Unk,
      That would be...interesting, wouldn't it. And loud. Firing the vulcan in both the F-4E and the F-15 was loud enough to be momentarily distracting the first time you shot it. And I wonder how they handled the recoil.

      Delete
    7. Pawel,
      I can see that happening. Both aircraft do well in a low to medium threat environment which fits most of the world situations at this time. But...while it used to be that everybody on the ground had a rifle, now it seems everyone on the ground has a hand held SAM. So...
      F-35 is the 2020 version of the 1960s F-4. Good at a lot of things, hopefully great at a couple.

      Delete
  11. Totally off quiz questions, did MBD move to a decent city and location or is she still trapped in a city not of your liking? Orders are supposed to include move-from and move-to locations, yaknowwhatImean?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, she's still in Moscow on the Colorado. Her company changed offices to a building in the South East side, so she moved so as to not increase the commute. Fortunately she found a ground floor apartment with a small fenced in yard in a brand new complex. To further comment on the niceness of the apartment, I don't have to drive through MotC proper and therefore Time to Intercept is about 30 minutes and countless heartbeats less. So...we've got that going for us.

      Delete
    2. What's her take on MotC's new homeless policy? I envision big companies suddenly putting up really nice and tall fencing (ornamental, of course) to enforce their homeless policy, not MotC's.

      Delete
    3. I don't think it's all that common knowledge. She seemed unaware when I asked her about it. But then again, she's still pretty young. Got a good head on her shoulders though (yes...it comes from her mother). Her apartment complex does have tall, ornamental fencing all round, which I view as a good thing.

      Delete
  12. I find it disconcerting that Mrs. J. is an Admiral of the Fleet as she seems to have switched services when she got passed over for General of the Air Force.
    I'm pretty sure the Phantom "C" model had the doggie protuberance.
    It's not a Gam 83? Is it. If so, the only thing I remember about that, is that it had a fun simulator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The C model did have that protuberance, however that system was a perfect cylinder. The D model had an second bump on the back of that sensor. You can see it (barely) in the picture of the Collins F-4. That was the only way I could distinguish a C from a D externally.

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    2. The small fairing looks like the one in the underside of the nose of an F-4S.

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    3. Yeah, I wonder if it's a similar piece of technology (from the middle ages). I think that fairing (thanks I couldn't think of that word) was for an IR detector that had been deprecated way before my time in the jet. It was just left on because that was cheaper than replacing a bazillion nose cones.

      Delete
  13. I would have gone zero for three and I was especially puzzled by Quiz Photo #2 when I fixated on the bollards in the foreground and didn't notice the catapult in the photo.

    I might have mumbled, "What the (expletive deleted) would the Air Force use bollards for?"

    Good reading and good comments.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I stopped my research just a tad too soon.
      The Air Force, well actually it was called the "US Army Airship Service" operated a fleet of dirigibles, and perhaps the bollards would have been used to moor the US Army Airship Service's dirigibles.
      I'm not making any of this up.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_airships

      Delete
    2. Thanks, John.

      I am certain that the Air Force term for a Catapult is "One Way RunWay". If it's not, it should be.

      Delete
    3. Interesting article about blimps, John. Thanks

      Delete
  14. Prototype A-12, BB rotatable catapult, the last one... Isn't a Bullpup, no front fins. Maybe an early Walleye??? Re the Spads, in 75, when Vietnam fell, there were six of them parked on our ramp in Utapao. We were working a deal with the Thai AM rep to buy them for $2000 apiece. Deal fell apart when the rep wouldn't give the USAF general in charge of Utapao the Lockheed Lodestar than had come in. OBTW, the Spads were VNAF birds, had gas, and one I check had the master weaps switch on when I got in. It also had rounds loaded in the guns!!! But it needed a left MM replaced... sigh

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    Replies
    1. It is a AGM-62 Walleye, and an A-12. But "one way runway" was the answer I was looking for. So 83% for you and leader in the clubhouse.

      Delete
  15. Ok Juvat, what are the two green stars on the F15? Are they air to air victories from the middle east?

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    Replies
    1. I can't find a definite answer for the 2 green stars but I've found the history of the F-15 displayed at the USS Battleship Alabama Memorial Park.

      http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=82656

      - Victor

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    2. Got it! 0078 MSN 0628/C147. (36th FW, 53rd FS) flown by Capt Thomas N. Dietz shot down two IrAF MiG-21s Feb 6, 1991,
      Desert Storm.

      - Victor

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    3. juvat, was 79-048 ever assigned to the 58th FS?

      http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=165619
      https://www.museumofaviation.org/blog/eagles-in-the-storm-exhibit/

      - Victor

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    4. Victor, I don't know, but suspect that when Bitburg was shut down, that jet was reassigned to Eglin and remained there until it was retired. It wouldn't make sense to put Eglin's livery on it if it hadn't been assigned there. Especially since Eglin Eagles had kills of their own. But...my opinion only.

      Delete
    5. Sorry, Navy91. Forgot to hit the publish button earlier. Yes those stars reflect confirmed kills by the aircraft as Victor said. They are much like the swastika/rising sun painted on the side of WWII Allied aircraft to reflect their kills. It's kinda interesting though. While assigned to Kunsan, the Juvats had an F-4C with two stars on it. For some reason, I always seemed to do better in that jet whether it was air to air or air to mud. Fighter Pilot is an attitude, not a Specialty Code, so I guess the stars helped bring out the fangs.

      Delete
  16. There was a Spad at an air show I went to a few years ago - either at ILM or at Sun 'n' Fun. It definitely garnered some attention both on static display (BIG!!) and on a fairly low fly by (nothing like the sound of a big radial engine zooming by!).

    Regarding the A-12 : were you aware there was another plane with that designation? You can see a prototype of it at the Fort Worth Aviation Museum
    https://www.fortworthaviationmuseum.com/2015/06/03/a-12-avenger-ii/

    That's a nice Museum, BTW - can get up close and personal to a lot of different aircraft, and the museum has a focus on FAC missions and planes. I also liked the fact that their restored Crusader had each side painted in different squadron colors to pay homage to two of the people involved in the restoration who actually flew that specific plane while in different squadrons. A nice touch, I thought.

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    Replies
    1. Well thanks for the info, Tom. I knew there was a proposed A-12, even though it was cancelled in '91, DOD was still talking about what to do to backfill the A-6 requirement.

      Another Museum, and within a comparatively easy day's drive! Could be another....road trip! I wonder how I'll broach this with Mrs J?

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    2. Shopping in the DFW area? And if you go to FW, try to make time to see the Air Museum over at Dallas Love Field. It's got a nice Thud, among other things. i lived nearby until I was in 7th grade and we rode our bikes to the old Love Field terminal building and did things there we'd get arrested for today, involving toy guns being pointed at planes! And if you go there, you can get some great BBQ at Sonny Bryan's on Inwood Road - but don't go there too late, they only make so much brisket each day!

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    3. I'm always up for BBQ. Mrs J makes a mean smoked brisket breakfast taco. If, of course, there's any brisket left over from the night before.

      Delete
  17. The F-8 Crusader pictured is actually an RF-8 photo recon bird, notice the camera windows on the side of the fuselage and lack of 20mm gun ports.

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Just be polite... that's all I ask. (For Buck)
Can't be nice, go somewhere else...

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