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| Launching a Genie |
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| That's not a real genie, Master, that's a Douglas AIR-2 Genie. An unguided air-to-air rocket with a 1.5 kt W25 nuclear warhead. (Source) |
I knew you could.
(Also worthy of note is that this is the very first time Barbara Eden and Larry Hagman have made the blog. I loved that show when I was a kid. No, I didn't join the Air Force hoping I'd meet Jeannie. Though the thought crossed my mind...)
Anyhoo, missiles, I know a thing or two about them, Worked on the guidance system for the AIM-7 (AIM = Air Intercept Missile) when I worked on the Phantom. Did some work for my current employer on an advanced variant of that missile. You could say that I was something of a "missile scientist" back in the day.
The theory is rather straightforward...
I got that tidbit from a colleague at work, if you guessed that's a spoof, you were correct. However, if you believed it, watch this...
But in reality, here's some actual stuff about rockets and missiles. Hey, it has Phantoms in it, sure no Barbara Eden, but hey, Phantoms!
This next clip shows an AIM-7 actually being used in combat. I could also say that the clip shows an AIM-7 actually functioning as designed. There were occasions where the trigger was pulled and the thing just fell off the aircraft, no rocket motor ignition, just an expensive bit of kit falling on some hapless gomer below. (No, the front didn't fall off, the whole missile did.)
Note that the beginning of the clip shows the "pipper*" on a MiG which is on the six of a Thud. Not good for the Thud. Later in the clip the aircraft are down low over the jungle. I'm guessing two clips spliced together?
So yeah, missiles are pretty cool, when they work. An internal gun on a fighter aircraft is a good thing. We learned that in Vietnam, seems to me that there are some in the Pentagon who need to learn that again.
* This looks more like the gunsight pipper and not the display used for launching an AIM-7. But hey, it's a cool film. YMMV.
My professor in Industrial Controls mentioned that the Aim 9 originally used a very simple "bang-bang" control system. No fancy adjustments like proportional control or integration. If it was off track, control surfaces went to the limit to adjust it back. If it was on target it would flutter between stops, hence, the "sidewinder" track. That made sense to me. I don't know if he was correct, but it got the concept across!!
ReplyDeleteInteresting. The 'Winder does indeed snake from side to side.
DeleteWhich is why I think the shot from the F-14 was actually an Aim-9. The Bang-Bang guidance also very much restricted the range on the missile. As for your comment, Sarge, on the last clip. Very much two clips. I believe, that first gunsight was from another Thud. The first Thud was inside of missile detection parameters and certainly an Aim-7 would not have been fired, too much risk of it picking up the larger radar return and guiding on it.
DeleteGood post and yes, I watched "I dream of Jeanie" also as a kid.
I'm glad I wasn't seeing things in that clip.
Delete105 gunsight, I guess my memory hasn't completely failed me.
I watched "IdoJ" as a kid and an adult, too. Pretty good show.
DeleteIt was funny. And Jeannie was smoking hot.
DeleteGood assets for a TV show.
IDoJ was great in syndication when I was a kid. At first, I thought that clip that shows an engagement of a MiG-17 on the tail of an F-105 was one I've seen before of an F-105 gun camera footage of an engagement with a MiG-17 where an F-105 suddenly flies between the engaging aircraft and a puff of smoke emerges from the "interfering" Thud's tailpipe just before the MiG-17 is hit by cannon fire. I've always thought that was a very near "own goal" with a 20 mm shell hit on that Thud in the tail section during it's very brief appearance in the gun camera footage.
DeleteAn appearance that wasn't even noticed by the firing Thud pilot, IIRC.
DeleteLarry the first - Now that you mention it, the clip you mention does live somewhere on the Interwebz by itself. I think it was a collection of clips where a friendly flies between two aircraft during a gun engagement. Saw one similar not long ago with one Hellcat on the tail of a Zero and another Hellcat flies between them.
DeleteLarry the second - Yup, easy enough to do.
DeleteThe Navy has its "Top Gun", "NCIS", et al. The Air Force has its "I Dream of Jeanie". Sigh, oh well. I got to marry a Jeanie 54 years ago. She's still magical.
ReplyDeleteRE: The shiny things that also fell off the aircraft. Sand Seekers we called them. From the fancy weapons controls (AFCS)in the Deuce to the same game in the Phantom, it was my experience that it was a good way to underwrite the "industrial military complex". Granted, I never fired one in anger. Hopefully with all the dollars spent, we have something that works now. The biggest mistake was taking the gun off of the Phantom. A Naval aviation contribution, I believe. USAF should design their own airplanes. The F-5 shouldda been more prevalent IMHO.
If you go back far enough, the Air Force did have Twelve O'Clock High, damn good movie, great TV series.
DeleteI'm surprised we didn't use the F-5.
Go back to around the same time as Twelve O'Clock High and the Air Force also had Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart. I love that movie. So many gorgeous shots of B-36s and B-47s.
DeleteDoes Iron Eagle count as an Air Force movie, even though they had to go to Israel to shoot the whole thing?
Strategic Air Command was an awesome flick!
DeleteIron Eagle and it's sequels, argh, I hated those!
Aaron, No Most Definitely! Iron Eagle is not an Air Force Movie.
DeleteGotta love the hair on that kid. I always liked how the pilots put their O2 masks on and off during combat. That million dollar face, I guess.
DeleteI've seen my Flt CO (and drinking instructor) take his mask off and lite up during air to air refueling over Laos or somewhere. He was letting the GIB do the refueling. Olden days story.
Now there's a story worth telling!
DeleteNo, no, no, not Iron Eagle, Dave's story.
Delete(Don't wish to be misconstrued...)
Can't watch the "Iron Eagle" movies. Yeah, sure, some video gaming kid jumps into a jet fighter and...
DeleteYeah...
I'll stick to "Enemy Mine" and "Officer and a Gentleman" if I want to see Louis Gossett Jr.
Ditto!
DeleteI'm pretty sure the only times I took my mask off was to drink some water, eat a meal (on a long deployment) or clean the sweat off my glasses. I guess that's why I'm not a hollywood star...or something.
DeleteThat's gotta be it. ;)
DeleteWhat I know about missiles could be written on the back of a business card. What I see is they must be much easier to work on than the aircraft that carries them.
ReplyDeleteThat last bit, a true statement WSF.
DeleteWell, you didn't find your genie, but you did find your 요정 (I hope that translates correctly, otherwise I just insulted your cat's nose...)
ReplyDeleteMissiles are strange beasties, aren't they. And they work pretty well, usually, within parameters, as long as they are in their environment and their noses don't fall off, that is.
요정? 누가 요정이야?
DeleteSpot on old chum. ;) (FWIW, cat nose is 고양이의 코)
Missiles are strange, great when they work.
That somehow backtranslates as "You've found your fairy." Dunno. Guess there's no real djinn in Korea. Which makes sense. Especially since djinn are mostly evil, well, except for Barbara Eden.
DeleteThere are weird things in Korea, I've seen 'em.
DeleteI doubt the AIR-2 Genie would've affected vision at all since the firing aircraft was supposed to have immediately broken hard to one side or the other after firing, lest it be consumed in the resulting fireball. Not like firing a cannon or cannons, at all. But it was a last ditch weapon against bombers carrying multi-megaton city-busters. It sure would've been more reliable a bomber-killer than the miserable Falcon.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right. When I looked at that opening photo again this morning, I remembered that the 106 had an internal weapons bay, so the missile is coming out from under the aircraft. An immediate break would be required if that bad boy was live, otherwise, like you said, little fireball inside a really big fireball.
DeleteAh, the poor AIM-4 Falcon, that brings back some memories. The really old NCOs would mention those from time to time when we were bitching about the AIM-7.
There weren't any missiles that could be called "reliable" (defined as somewhat likely to actually work) until the Aim-9P and AIM-7F came along. I fired an Aim-9P (probably to get it out of inventory) off the F-15 in a live fire exercise in the PI. Didn't actually hit, but the telemetry said the fuse signal was transmitted within lethal radius. (It didn't have a warhead.) The LT's got to fire 9M's and several had kinetic kills, meaning the missile body actually hit the drone. The 7M's all worked as advertised, but I don't recall any kinetic kills with them. While the pilots all wanted to see it hit, the drone squadron, for some reason, was less than enthusiastic. (Course if #1 shooter got a kinetic kill...#2-4 were SOL.)
DeleteKinda related, but not. Dad's squadron in Korea usually had the best gunnery scores because of something about war rounds only being allowed to be carried as war rounds a certain number of times, then disposed of. The practice rounds were not as good quality, so the squadron did gunnery practice with 'out-of-service' war rounds. Which resulted in dad flying the target one time, and it being shredded so bad what was left was 'flying' about 100' below him, which meant when he came in for landing it wiped out every clothes line and garden in the approach path.
DeleteGot to watch lots of missile launches from fixed stands at both Vandenberg and Point Magoo. Neat watching them chase down various drone planes, except for the drone planes that happened to be real planes. Too many wonderful fighters shot down by our own side. Sad, so sad.
Juvat - Don't tell Tuna that they were killing drones...
DeleteHe likes drones.
;)
Beans - Ammo, like fruit, spoils over time.
DeleteOr something.
I worked on the AIM-54C and AWG-9 when I first started at Hughes in the early 1980's. Had lots of fun going to the PMTC and watching live firings. And since the Long Beach Naval Shipyard was still in business, we'd get to go on Field Trips to see the carriers, and meet the flight crews that flew "our" missiles.
ReplyDeleteThen I got transferred, and did some development work on the AMRAAM, but didn't care for that department, and moved over to The Dark Side of the house, which is NOT a story for another day.....
Ah, the mighty Phoenix and the awesome Tomcat (aka Aluminum Overcast). Now there was a combination!
DeleteYou worked for Hughes? Awesome, work-wise we're like cousins or something. ;)
There is still a need for a very long range intercept missile. Especially now that we are restricted to medium range aircraft. :(
Deletedrjim's life story sounds absolutely fascinating, and only requires a SCIF room, high security, a need to know, and about 5 other impossible things to get.
True dat.
DeleteBlogger ate my reply!
DeleteYep. Worked at HAC from May 1985 until October 1989. Would have stayed on, but wound up in a department that didn't get the big contract they were bidding on, and got chopped.
Had a lot of fun, made a decent wage, and learned an awful lot of Really Neat Stuff.
Sigh, Blogger will sometimes eat comments even when it's not hungry.
Delete