Friday, May 1, 2020

The Friday Flyby - The P-39 Airacobra

P-39 Кобрушка (Little Cobra)
(Source)

So, an aircraft built around a cannon, we're talking the A-10 Thunderbolt II¹, yes?

Nope, we're talking about the "lowly" Bell P-39 Airacobra.

So if you'll remember, about ten days ago I did a post on the "Best" Fighter of WWII. So I figured at some point I'd do a post on the "Worst" Fighter of WWII.

This isn't it.

Two aircraft, much maligned by historians, got a mention in that post, not as the best but as possible candidates for the "worst" fighter of WWII, the Brewster F2A Buffalo and the Bell P-39 Airacobra. When I started doing the research for the "Worst" fighter (false started twice BTW), I saw the Buffalo on almost every list, the Airacobra was on a couple of lists. But a couple of guys who actually flew the bird (one you probably know) had this to say about the P-39
“It was a great airplane, and its presence in New Guinea deterred the Japanese from landing in Australia, I can guarantee that,” asserts Colonel Charles Falletta, who totaled 16 aerial victories during the war, including six while flying P-39s over New Guinea. Most of the “rumors about the P-39 were from pilots who never flew the airplane,” contends Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager. “It’s hearsay,” he concludes.
Yeager put in some 500 hours in the P-39 and once had to bail out over Casper, Wyoming, when a flight test of a new stainless steel prop went bad. The well-respected Yeager, who later became the first man to break the sound barrier, notes that “most pilots learn when they pin on their wings and go out and get in a fighter, especially, that one of the things you don’t do, you don’t believe anything anybody tells you about an airplane.” (Source)
As I've mentioned before, the Russians loved their "Little Cobra"², a number of Soviet aces ran up some big scores against their German opponents flying the P-39 -
(Source)

As you can see, all save one of those pilots were in "Guards" units. Guards troops were considered to be elite and they actually won that accolade in battle. This honorific was introduced in September of 1941, both to boost Soviet morale and to honor those units who had distinguished themselves in hard fighting.

Soviet P-39 in Guards livery, note the emblem on the pilot's door.
(Source)
Soviet Guards Badge

An aside on that "tank busting" note on the picture. From what I've read, that's really a myth. The Russians used the aircraft for a number of things, ground attack was not one of them, though I'm sure from time to time a Soviet pilot probably strafed a ground target or two. In actuality that big cannon (which I'll get to in a moment) wasn't actually supplied with armor piercing ammunition.

Now there are a couple of cool things about the P-39 that I have always thought were cool. One was that cannon firing through the propeller hub, that monster has a bore of 37 mm. As you might recall, the A-10 cannon is "only" 30 mm. The other thing I liked about the P-39 were the doors, one on each side, kind of like a car!

(Source)

Now both of those things which I found "cool" presented some problems for the pilot. First of all, the cannon only had thirty rounds, had a slow rate of fire, and tended to jam. Not really great attributes for an aircraft cannon, and those doors, notice which way they open.

Yup, into the slipstream. Try opening one of those at speed. So how do you bail out?

In the Pilot's Manual for the P-39Q-1, on page 17, it tells you how to "emergency exit" (Yes, that's what the manual calls it) from the aircraft -


Reminds me of Major Moran, "Oh my God, the tank is on fire!" (By the way, you can get your own copy of the P-39 Pilot's Manual here. It's only 33 pages long.)



Yup, just slide off the wing, that works for me. (When going up in the SNJ-6 a while back for aerobatics, the crew chief instructed me, sitting in the front seat, that if we had to "emergency exit" the aircraft to "Slide the canopy back, hit the quick release there, then dive over the trailing edge of the right wing." My pilot added, "If I say jump, don't ask questions, you'll be talking to yourself." Right...)

Now how did this wee bird wind up with that big cannon anyway?
In February 1937, Lieutenant Benjamin S. Kelsey, Project Officer for Fighters at the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC), and Captain Gordon P. Saville, fighter tactics instructor at the Air Corps Tactical School, issued a specification for a new fighter via Circular Proposal X-609. It was a request for a single-engine high-altitude "interceptor" having "the tactical mission of interception and attack of hostile aircraft at high altitude". Despite being called an interceptor, the proposed aircraft's role was simply an extension of the traditional pursuit (fighter) role, using a heavier and more powerful aircraft at higher altitude. Specifications called for at least 1,000 lb of heavy armament including a cannon, a liquid-cooled Allison engine with a General Electric turbo-supercharger, tricycle landing gear, a level airspeed of at least 360 mph at altitude, and a climb to 20,000 feet within 6 minutes. This was the most demanding set of fighter specifications USAAC had presented to that date. Although Bell's limited fighter design work had previously resulted in the unusual Bell YFM-1 Airacuda, the Model 12 proposal adopted an equally original configuration with an Allison V-12 engine mounted in the middle of the fuselage, just behind the cockpit, and a propeller driven by a shaft passing beneath the pilot's feet under the cockpit floor.
The main purpose of this configuration was to free up space for the heavy main armament, a 37 mm Oldsmobile T9 cannon firing through the center of the propeller hub for optimum accuracy and stability. This happened because H.M. Poyer, designer for project leader Robert Woods, was impressed by the power of this weapon and pressed for its incorporation. This was unusual, because fighter design had previously been driven by the intended engine, not the weapon system. Although devastating when it worked, the T9 had very limited ammunition, a low rate of fire, and was prone to jamming. (Source)
Here's what the cannon looks like without the airframe around it -

(Source)

You might also notice that the engine for this bird is rather a long way from the propeller. Note that the drive shaft for the propeller runs under the cannon and, as a matter of fact, is behind the pilot. That drive shaft runs under the pilot (between his feet actually) and is actually offset down from the propeller center line. The design uses an offset reduction gearbox to drive the prop, which you can see the back of here -

(Source)

By the way, that horse collar looking thing is the magazine for the cannon. We'll see that in this video -



Here's the cockpit with the seat removed and the shroud removed from around the stick -

(Source)

Now that cannon wasn't the only bit of weaponry on the P-39, it also mounted two .50 caliber machine guns on top of the engine, and two more in the wings (one per side). She packed quite a punch!

I think another reason why I like this aircraft is that my brother and I built a kit of it way back in 1965!

(Source)
I always thought that the canopy provided better visibility than a lot of early WWII designs and that tricycle landing gear was pretty modern as well.

A pretty cool video of the P-39 from my favorite flight sim, Il-2 Sturmovik -



The flyby by the C-47 in the beginning is pretty cool, the engines sounded "just right."

Here are two cutaway diagrams of the P-39D, one is the "stock" US model with the 37 mm cannon and the other is the Soviet model with a 20 mm cannon. (You'll need to click to embiggen, I didn't want to lose any detail by shrinking the drawings to fit.)

US Version
(Source)

Soviet Version
(Source)

Oh, one more thing about that cannon, as you fired off the cannon ammunition, the center of gravity of the aircraft tended to shift aft as the nose got lighter. The P-39 had a distressing habit of going into a flat spin if you yanked and banked over-enthusiastically when that happened!

The Pilot's Manual has two sections (page 19), first is Maneuvers Prohibited -

The following acrobatics are prohibited:
  • Outside loops and spins
  • Never try any acrobatics with a tail-heavy aircraft
Then there's second, ever popular, Maneuvers Not Recommended -

The following acrobatics are prohibited:
  • Snap rolls
  • Spinning
So yes, don't spin the bloody thing, ever! I call those two sections "don't ever do this" and "really, you really shouldn't do this either." Good to know.

The instrument panel was rather straightforward (I've seen some a lot more complicated) -

Key to the figure below
P-39 Airacobra Instrument Panel

I don't really know why, but I really like the P-39, it has a certain je ne sais quoi. Perhaps "coolness" is how I'd put it. Besides, the Juvat's flew these back in the day!

USAAF P-400 of 80th Fighter Squadron "Headhunters," 8th Fighter Group

The P-400 is a modified version of the P-39:
In September 1940, Britain ordered 386 P-39Ds (Model 14), with a 20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS.404 and six .303 in, instead of a 37 mm  cannon and six 0.30 in guns. The RAF eventually ordered a total of 675 P-39s. However, after the first Airacobras arrived at 601 Squadron RAF in September 1941, they were promptly recognized as having an inadequate rate of climb and performance at altitude for Western European conditions. Only 80 were adopted, all of them with 601 Squadron. Britain transferred about 200 P-39s to the Soviet Union.
Another 200 examples intended for the RAF were taken up by the USAAF after the attack on Pearl Harbor as the P-400, and were sent to the Fifth Air Force in Australia, for service in the South West Pacific Theater. (Source)
The Headhunters of the 80th? These guys -
Known as the "Juvats" due to the squadron motto -
Audentes Fortuna Juvat - Fortune Favors the Brave
And yes, "our" juvat flew with those guys. No, no, not in World War II, he's nowhere near Old NFO's age, he flew with them in Korea, in the 80s. Yes, the 1980s. When I was there.

Anyhoo. Cool aircraft, I likes it. Yes Precious, I do.

(Source)

Someday I'll do that "Worst" fighter of WWII post, today is not that day.

From the Pilot's Manual
From the Pilot's Manual

Don't underestimate an aircraft until you've flown it! (You've been warned.)


Suggested Reading and Sources:
  • America's Worst WWII Fighter Link
  • Yanks Air Museum P-39 Link
  • This Day in Aviation, 01 Sep 1946 Link
  • National Museum of the Air Force, P-39 Link
  • National Museum of the Air Force, Allison V-1710-85 Drive Train Link
  • Warfare History Network, the P-39 Link
  • Wikipedia, Bell P-39 Airacobra Link
  • Wikipedia, Bell P-63 Kingcobra Link
  • Skytamer Images, P-39N Link
  • Avgeekery, The Fighter US Pilots Disdained Link
  • Lt Ivan Baranovsky's P-39 Link
  • Russian P-39 Freed from Frozen Grave Link
  • P-39 Airacobra Discovered in Russian Lake Link
Those last three are all different takes on the same story, a Soviet WWII-era P-39 recovered from a Russian lake. With the pilot still inside, God rest his soul.


¹ AKA Warthog, or just Hog.
² Actually the Russian word "Кобрушка" (Kobrushka) is the diminutive term for the Russian word "Кобра" (Kobra). Just as Billy is the diminutive term for William. More of an affectionate term than anything else...

62 comments:

  1. I also thought the P-39 was a pretty cool plane, and also liked the doors. I think the model I made was a couple years earlier than 1965, but maybe not. IIRC, it got 'retired' when I started strapping Black Cat firecrakers to some of my models (usually ones that had unintentionally crashed off the strings holding them to my room's ceiling, suffering impact damage of some sort or another) and tossing them up in the air after lighting said firecrackers. Simulated FLAK, dontcha know.

    Nice post, Sarge - and maybe the fact that Oldsmobile made the cannon contributed to its issues? Although it would have been a cool option for a Super Delta 88!

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    1. Definitely not your father's Oldsmobile!

      You'd get people's attention with that 37mm cannon!

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    2. Soviets loved the 37mm so much they have built own gun in the calibre and mounted it on prolifik Yak-9, resulting in Yak-9T. After the war they used the gun, along with a pair of 23mm ones on famous MiG-15. Ouch for any bomber on receiving end. And the same combo armed MiG-17 in Vietnam was supposedly flown by some Northern top aces...

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    3. Yes it was Pawel. Small and hard to see, very maneuverable, relatively fast, fast enough to close on you if you were at a tactical cruise speed. If the first time you saw him was in guns range, you were in deep trouble. But a hard break, burners, and a quick unload to get through the mach, was good enough (usually or 2 of the 3 engagements I had with one) to get away. ( The other engagement is where I learned the lesson in the third sentence above. Fortunately that lesson was learned in Nevada, not Korea.

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    4. Paweł - Didn't know that, thanks for the info!

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    5. juvat - I've heard that that little MiG was awfully nimble. So you actually got to fly against one? There's a story there, I'm sure.

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    6. At least 2 defectors brought MiG-15s with them to the west in early 1950s. One was Pole (you just knew one had to pop here...), who landed in Denmark. Soviets demanded return of plane and pilot, citing no less than "holy right of property". Lawful good Danes returned the plane, but not before giving US intel guys good look at it. Pilot of course was off limits. Another defection happened in Korea, and this time plane was told to be missing, and turned up predictably in Area 51... I assume after Egypt flipped sides in 1970s more MiGs showed up there, and one was meeting with juvat there...

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    7. It's amazing how Russian equipment finds its way to the West, voluntarily.

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    8. This is a pretty good book by someone who brought his MiG-29 West: Fulcrum: A Top Gun Pilot's Escape from the Soviet Empire.

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  2. Reading about "prop shaft running between the pilot's legs" and SEEING IT.....two different things..... hoo boy. Friend and I "retired" more than one old model by suspending them from a fishing line elevated at one end so it "flew" down the line when the firecracker eventually went off......boom! mid-air explosion! Followed by a parent yelling "What the #@%! was that?" Ah......good times, good times. Solid post Sarge, lots of info to peruse.

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    1. The part that made me sit up was that the propeller shaft ran through the control stick. Made me wonder that did.

      But the bird actually experienced few problems with that.

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  3. Read Cobra Combat. A great account of a pilot flying many hours in the South Pacific. Few negative comments on the aircraft. Just guys doing their job.

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    1. I looked it up, available on Amazon, looks like a good read. Thanks for the tip Paul.

      "Just guys doing their job." An important statement, would that people would just do their jobs today!

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  4. As both you and Tom in NC said, I built that model.

    During our visit to the Museum of the Air Force I thought I was looking at a stretched P-39 and it was the P-63 as shown in your link.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the P-63 Kingcobra is a P-39 that was built with the benefit of learning what could be improved on the P-39.
    https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196305/bell-p-63e-kingcobra/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-63_Kingcobra

    Great post.

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    1. Quick way of telling a P-39 from a P-63 is that the former has a three-bladed prop, the latter a four-bladed prop. Also the vertical stabilizer is "pointier." Side by side the differences become more apparent.

      I see the Air Force Museum says that the P-63 was used for "tank busting," which as I mentioned above was something of a myth based on a poor translation of a Russian phrase. I could be wrong but in the Il-2 Sturmovik the Russians already had a very good tank buster purpose designed for ground support.

      I don't know for certain as I wasn't there. Not even Old NFO is THAT old. 😉

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  5. "If I say jump. don't ask questions, you'll be talking to yourself"

    LOL. When I was getting my first familiarization flight ("dollar ride") in the T-37 in flt tng at Laughlin AFB in Dell Rio TX (home of fabled 60s radio DJ "Wolf-man Jack") my IP Maj Ray Brown said: "If you ever hear me say 'Bailout!' don't bother to ask 'say what? 'cause I'll be gone."

    PS: Echoing others here to say "great post" and "I built that model" (Revell also) as a kid. (but in early 50s--remember, I'm in the process of transiting from my geezerhood to early fossil status--my 76th birthday is 6 May :) )

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    1. If it makes you feel better, I'm only nine years behind you Virgil, on 8 May!

      The Tweet was in service 52 years, quite a record for a military aircraft. Oh wait, the mighty B-52 was introduced in 1955, they stop building them in 1962, and she's still on active duty. Hell, that bird is almost as old as me!

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    2. "Hell, that bird is almost as old as me!

      And looks better too!

      Sorry, that ball was just rolling around the rim begging me to tap it in.

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    3. Bwaaahaaaahaaaaa!!

      Good one!

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    4. I was just wondering if BUFF's have to get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, them being so old and all?? Or is that what the puddles of hydraulic fluid underneath them are? (Certainly was the case with the Blackbird, although that was fuel...)

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    5. From what I've heard, only the Blackbird was truly incontinent.

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    6. Don McCollor)...Ran across a fanciful story about an ancient tired DC3 slowly bleeding hydraulic fluid from an old war wound that had never healed...On a short runway contemptuously feeling the young pilots at the controls..."Puppies!"...

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    7. I can almost believe that. If those old birds could talk...

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    8. Beans - Blackbird, incontinent. Heh, good one.

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  6. I read a bit of Lt. B's P-39 link. They found a young lady's name and address on a panel in the door. That lady's daughter got to see it, put both hands on the door and thought, "my mom did this." Got a bit dusty.

    My first ever service rifle competition with the Garand drew me up like that. As I was was shoving in the 8 rounds after I burned the first two off, seated rapid, I had the thought sweep over me, "I am doing what millions did, years ago. What my dad and my uncles did, exactly the same way." I got a big lump in my throat that day. It is something else again, to me anyway, to do what my ancestors did. From saddling a horse, to field dressing an animal. It's a connection to the past, that my mind keys on. Kinda weird, but there it is.

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    1. I found that piece of the story amazing and rather touching. Also, after further review, I note that the second link in that series ("Russian P-39 Freed from Frozen Grave") has nothing to do with Lt Baranovsky's P-39. Looking at it again I realized that THAT P-39 was really busted up, Lt Baranovsky's bird was in relatively good shape compared to that one.

      Memories can be overwhelming at times. I was re-watching Band of Brothers a couple of weeks ago and in the middle of the first episode I had to sit back and recover. I was rather overwhelmed with emotion when I realized that the first time I'd watched that series was with my Dad. He's been gone ten years now, every now and then something will hit me like that and I have to "stand down" for a bit until I regain my composure.

      Following in the path can be emotional, believe me, I get that, STxAR.

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    2. Right there with you both - every once in a while, something just gets in my eyes, and I have to take a couple of deep breaths to get it out of my system.

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    3. What STxAR said. Got my first Garand through the old DCM program (now CMP thanks to Teddie K., hack--spit) in 1983 for @121.96. Arrived in a box by mail. I still have it. At the end of each highpower rifle season, I would shoot my last match with that rifle. When you pick one up, all the voices of those whose lives depended on them call to you.

      Not weird. Same thing with my dad's old hand tools. It's not like he made a living with them--he was an independent insurance agent. But they were his. I gave his 3 ft. level to my oldest son.

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    4. RHT447 - Nice price for an M-1!

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    5. Dontcha just hate typos?

      I wish Blogger had a comment edit feature, WordPress does and it's nice.

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  7. Interestingly, and coincidentally, all three of my operational fighter squadrons fought in the South West Pacific Theater in WWII. The 80th, 339th and 12th. The 339th along with the 67th flew the Yamamoto mission. They were also still focused on the Pacific when I was flying with them. The only one still operational is the Juvats. The 12th was transferred to Alaska and eventually disbanded. The 339th was renamed to the 69th to satisfy Wilbur's anal need for order. (The other two squadrons were the 67th and 68th, we became the 69th). It eventually was disbanded also.

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    1. Could you clue me into why going from 339th to 69th was order? Was there a 68th and a 70th, but no 339th?

      And, once formed, you don't change a unit's number. That's like changing a ship's name without transferring ownership. Bad Juju and all that.

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    2. Both the 8th and 18th TFWs have long been associated with Asia as well (I like the old "Tactical Fighter Wing" designation, it's the dinosaur in me.)

      What is it with some people once they don stars on their shoulders? If it ain't uniform changes it's renaming and renumbering things.

      Jerks.

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    3. Beans- Yet the USAF makes a habit of it!

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    4. Following the lineage of USAF squadrons can give one a headache! :)

      Seems like the 12th Fighter Squadron has been reformed as the 12th Special Operations Squadron tasked to operate the MQ-9 Reaper. The 69th is now a USAF fighter reserve squadron (training) at Luke AFB flying the F-16C. There is also currently a 339th Flight Test Squadron claiming lineage with the original 339th. The squadron is responsible for conducting flight tests on the Lockheed C-130 Hercules, the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy and McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle after program depot maintenance is completed.

      - Victor

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    5. Indeed it is! Units being renumbered, renamed, repurposed, it's enough to drive one insane.

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  8. Hey AFSarge;

    When I was going through Graf and some of the other places in Germany I would get dega-vu because my Dad did the same thing and I remember him doing the same thing. It gut a bit surreal. You get the generational thing. I always though the P-39 got the short shrift and it was a better plane than people said, the Soviets really liked the plane, it suited their style of warfare really well.

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    1. Hey, if Chuck Yeager says good airplane, that's enough for me!

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  9. I seem to remember that the only real issue with the -39 was the hot Pacific air, along with the hot North African air, really robbed the engine of a lot of power, and it was a bit hot in landing and very Republic in taking off under those conditions.

    It definitely was a plane that deserved further tweeking and polishing.

    Not the worst, maybe not the best, but it was good when we needed it. One of those 'best is the enemy of good' thingies.

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    1. Pretty much. Sometimes good enough is all you've got. I read (somewhere) that it had a 1:1 kill ratio against the Zero. All things considered, that ain't bad!

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  10. I remember in some aircraft book I read probably 55 or so years ago (in high school) that the P-63 was fitted with lights in the cockpit and used as a piloted target plane, and was known as the "Pinball."

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    1. Why yes it was. Painted them orange as well.

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    2. I was going to bring the "Pinball" up. The gunners-in-training fired frangible rounds at the aircraft. All the OEM armor was stripped off, and over a ton of new armor added. I remember reading some years ago that the canopy was specially modified to be more resistant to the lead/bakelite frangible rounds fired at it.

      I first heard of it when I was a 10 year old model airplane builder and wannabee pilot.

      And I knew right away I didn't want to fly that aircraft!

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    3. Yes, I read that too, kind of made me pause. No, I wouldn't want that job.

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  11. First to have tricycle landing gear? Was it also the first to have a barn door cockpit entry for the pilot? That's just weird. Makes sense that the Brits and the Russkies liked it! You should write about Bell. At some point they shifted from fixed wing to helos (assuming it's the same company).

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    1. Yup. Actually the Brits didn't care for it at all. The about about Bell is a good one, they did go from fixed wing to helos.

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    2. Heh. Also not "about about" but "idea about." My brain hasn't fully activated yet, the typing subroutines are still coming online.

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  12. As far as I knoe, the reason for most trouble was engine, same as early Mustangs and thus underperforming at higher altitudes. Soviets didnt mind as they usually fought lowdown to keep stukas at bay or escort shturmoviks. Solomons were similar since Japanese didnt fly very high either. But over western Europe it was handicap. P-63 was sliggtly better in performance due to laminar flow wing. If they would alsp borrow Merlin engine, it could have been very strong fighter....

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    1. Yes, that Allison engine just didn't perform well at altitude with a super-charger. Good points on the low level aspect.

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  13. I read Yeager’s autobiography years ago and I think he flew a lot of those around Tonopah where he was training.

    All this time I wondered why they put the engine behind the pilot but I guess the thing like the A-10 was designed around that cannon.

    But not being able to spin was a serious flaw.

    Getting a serious dog fight and sometimes you’d get into an inadvertent spin.

    I think of it it’s not much different from my old mid engine Toyota MR 2.

    99% of the time they were a beautiful handler. That’s why all exotic cars today are mid engine, with the engine behind the driver but in front of the rear axle.

    But if you went into a sharp curve and really applied the brakes you would get what they call snap oversteer. One moment you’re doing fine in a split second later you’re spinning around.

    I managed to do that in an autocross and it did 2 360° turns.

    I have to wonder why that P 39 wasn’t used more by our forces

    I’m not sure I’d like that driveshaft under my leg

    Great research Sarge.

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    1. Actually the aircraft "liked" it spin once it got tail heavy, a flat spin. A mother bear to get out of.

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  14. I recall reading that the P-51 had spin problems when fully fueled up. Mustang pilots would cruise on internal fuel until they had burned up enough to balance the craft properly and only then switch to the external tanks. There was no such way around the difficulty with the P-39. Either don't use your most powerful weapon or use it and take your chances if you get in a dogfight later.

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    1. Didn't know that about the P-51!

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    2. The problem was the 85 gallon tank directly behind the pilot. They had to burn that one off first, or the center of gravity was all off for dogfighting.

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    3. Very interesting. The things I learn from you folks...

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  15. OldAFSarge, Regarding the bail out procedure for the P-39. When the manual talks about releasing the door, it doesn't mean opening the door into the slipstream. When you turn the door handle 90 degrees, it retracts the hinge pins, and the door literally RELEASES, and falls away cleanly from the aircraft. The recommendation to go out the starboard side due to obstructions to port is referring to the throttle quadrant and prop controls on the port side. You can see these "obstructions" in the photo of the interior in your article. There is a real chance if you go out to port that your chute harness can snag on the quadrant. Regarding the bail out position, you slide off the wing rather than just stepping out of the cockpit so that you don't hit the horizontal stabilizer as you fall. Same reason your instructor told you to "DIVE" over the side of the T-6. If you step out onto the wing and just step off into the air, the slipstream will carry you aft before you fall below the level of the stab. A sudden impact with that much aluminum moving at 200+ knots will mess up your day. Thank heaven I did most of my flying sitting on a nice Martin Baker Zero-Zero seat. Keep it coming.....VERY Old NAVY!

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    1. Nice eye for the fine details, though I expect that from an old Navy guy. 😉

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