Saturday, August 9, 2025

Old age and Treachery...Redux

 

Had a bit of a technical problem with reposting a story I'd told a while ago, (Back when Sarge was young, that long a while ago.)  But, got this one up and ready.  This story is pretty much early in my career, F-4's  and AT-38s were my rides, and the Eagle was the "Bad Guy".
 
In any case, here we go. 
 
Cool picture of an F-4 shamelessly stolen from HERE


The paragraph that captured my fancy was this one.
Computers changed the flying professional, but an evolution of slippery Phantom tactics continued to confound the sometimes embarrassed good pilots in modern machines. There was a lot of challenge. You were always up against supposedly better aircraft. Phantom crews shriek with delight, like the wide-eyed :kid, when describing unobserved stern missile launches or tracking gunshots against a magic dream machine. Yet, satisfaction is rarely displayed in the presence of your opponent. The adversary must think that Phantoms gunning Hornets is fairly common, which it is, if you don’t keep exact score.
Anyhow, that was followed by a comment on my last post from Andrew who'd commented "Must have been interesting transitioning from the flying brick to the Eagle. I'm not saying the F-4 wasn't maneuverable or fast, but the difference (from the ground) seem almost unbelievable. (But then again, for years after the introduction of the A-10, the old guys in their A-7s kept winning the ground attack competitions.)"  

That comment got me to thinking about my transition from the F-4 "Double Ugly" through the AT-38 into the Eagle.  When I first got to the F-4 in '78, the F-15 had been around a few years, but wasn't fully deployed.  It's weapons and tactics were still being developed and so not fully tested and reliable. While undoubtedly a more capable machine that the Phantom, the Red Baron's adage was very valid. "It's not the crate, it's the man inside the crate."
Source

I didn't get to fight an Eagle until I was just about ready to leave Moody for Holloman.  We'd deployed to Tyndall for WSEP (Weapons System Evaluation Program) and DACT (Dissimilar Air Combat Training).

WSEP meant we were going to fire live Air to Air missiles against drones to test both the missiles and the weapons system (AKA Sarge's area of expertise).  Unfortunately, when I got my chance to fire an AIM-7F, Sarge was still in Korea, and my Radar crapped out and couldn't be fixed.  


In any case, we've got the afternoon off, and are scheduled for a 2 v 2 against F-15s the following morning.  The four of us, two front seaters plus two back seaters are meticulously planning the following day's tactics at the Tyndall AFB DACT planning center.  This very nice planning center was sandwiched between the beach and the runway and had stunning views of each.  In fact, it had 18 different areas where one could focus on different aspects of the mission.  The planning center also allowed us to study the aerodynamics of dimpled spherical objects, which was immensely helpful to the development of our tactics.  As was the liquid refreshment.

We knew that charging at the Eagles in a two ship line abreast would result in our demise about 10 miles prior to the merge.  The plan then was to fly at them in fingertip formation, popping chaff at regular intervals.  At about 20 miles, #2 would roll inverted into a 60 degree dive, popping chaff all the way to the bottom of the area.  #1 would continue til 15 miles then do a max G break away from 2 for 180 degrees .  2 would lock on to one of the Eagles and fire, then continue on trying to see the other Eagle.  On hearing the Fox-1 call, 1 would turn back into the fight and try to enter.  

Worked like a champ.  Except, I was #2 as my radar wouldn't lock.  No matter, my WSO was able to track the Eagles without the lock and talk my eyes on to them.  A Belly Heat shot is a thing of beauty! Two is even better.

Later on, at Holloman, the IPs would occasionally get IP Proficiency flights, usually cross-country, but also DACT with the Eagles across the ramp.  Here, we were flying much smaller aircraft than the Eagles were used to flying against, so gaining a tally for them was challenging.  Since we had neither Radar nor Radar Warning in the AT-38, all fights required visual ID prior to taking a shot.  Evened the odds a bit.  

Another advantage we had was starting with mine, each class of IP Upgrade students included Eagle Drivers.  So, we could learn exactly when things were happening in the other cockpit and how to mess with their minds. Finally, these missions usually occurred because the Eagle's airspace, AKA White Sands Missile Range, could and would be closed on very short notice if one of the test missiles needed more time.  At that point, the Eagle Wing would call the AT-38 wing scheduler (AKA Me) and see if they couldn't work something out to use our airspace.

Since our airspace was subsonic, the Eagle was at a disadvantage, in that all that beautiful thrust had to be tempered so as not to boom Ruidoso or Roswell.  

All that having been said, the only mission I remember any details about was about 18000' above Ruidoso with an Eagle on my six.  I was jinking continuously for what seemed to be an hour and a half.  I was ever so patiently communicating with my former Eagle driver wingman to come and assist me in driving this pernicious vermin off my back.

Review of his gun camera video was reassuring as well as disconcerting.  He never got the pipper stabilized on my aircraft, but I never got out of his gun camera field of view.  The 360 degree per second AT-38 roll rate stood me in good stead.

So, by the time I actually got checked out in the Eagle, I had a pretty good perspective on what an adversary was likely to do in order to make the odds a little more even.

Because someone once said, the enemy gets a vote on your strategy.

I've been checked out, but because I've got virtually no experience in the Eagle, I'm relegated to being a wingman.  "Two", "Bingo" and "Lead, you're on fire" being my only allowed radio calls.   I get to fly on the wing of some of my students in the AT-38.  Ah, well, payback is a female dog!

One of the things that I noticed was that the Eagle Driver mindset was in full force.  "By golly, I fly the F-15 with a 100-0 kill ratio (or whatever it was prior to the Gulf War).  We're going to go to the merge in line abreast and kill everyone in front of us!"
Wall of Eagles

Hmmm!

So, being the taciturn and tactful guy I am, I would talk about the rumors that the North Koreans were receiving Mig-29s.  How would that effect our tactics?  Might we have to engage in some deceptions as to who we were, which formation we were flying, how many of us were there?  You know, add some "fog of war" to their decision matrix?

"By golly, I fly the F-15 with a 100-0 kill ratio (or whatever it was prior to the Gulf War).  We're going to go to the merge in line abreast and kill everyone in front of us!"

Then the Navy got the Hornet out on the Midway.  Not having any other 4th generation air to air fighter in theater, they sought us out to get really checked out in Air to Air.  (The three F-16 squadrons on the ROK were committed there and the squadrons out of Misawa were predominately air to ground also.)

I'm #2 in a 2V2 DACT against two Hornets who've deployed to Kadena for a couple of hops on Friday, a Friday night at the club then back to the ship.  A good deal all round.  They come over to the squadron and because they're the "trainees", they're briefing.

Their flight lead, I can tell, has "been there, done that".  His briefing is well done, objectives are clear and, interestingly, he hasn't placed any restrictions on us.  We're full up F-15s, the only restriction on either side is Positive ID required before shooting (i.e. we have to have proof that the target is an FA-18 before we can take a shot.  That is the minimum standard for the US, some restrictions are much more severe.)

My LT flight lead briefs the standard tactics, and we get our butts handed to us.  Back in the mass debrief, we look at tapes and all their kills were valid as called.  Score Hornets 4, Eagles 1.  (I did manage to launch a heart of the envelope Aim-9 shot with a couple of seconds left on the Hornet's Aim-7, mutual kill)

Back in our flight debrief, the LT is stunned and has nothing to say about how it happened and more importantly what to do about it in the future.  With that over, we went into the squadron bar, I bought a couple of beers and we sat down in a corner and talked.  Both of us gained a little from the discussion.
I've got a special affinity for THIS aircraft.
Found the picture on a highly unusual website for this type thing
Source

I knew that I was in line to be a flight commander, that I would have kids, like the LT, who had flown one jet, one way, and were very proficient at it.  I also knew that the world was changing and they would need to anticipate and change with it.  How was I going to implement that?

One of my favorite tactics was on BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvers) rides.  Typically on a BFM ride, one aircraft would position itself about 6-9000' out about 30 degrees off the front aircraft's tail, just outside of weapons range.  Once the fight was started, both aircraft began maneuvering to gain or deny weapons parameters.

A lot of fun, and somewhat useful in learning how to maneuver as well as manage the aircraft's energy.  However, not very tactically oriented. (The chances of survival for the guy out front if an enemy arrives just outside of gun range and 30 degrees off your tail before you see him is negligible.)

I liked to start the engagement from a neutral position, in a head on pass.  Once we passed, I would have each aircraft continue on it's heading until we were separated by 10 miles.  At that point, I would call fight's on and we would turn towards each other.

My intent here was to simulate that we have come through a merge and our home base was at our six.  We had to turn around and locate very quickly any remaining threat and either kill them or escape back towards our "Home".  

BTW, 10 miles head on is "heart of the envelope" for both missiles.  A shot taken at that range has a very high probability of kill.

We generally had gas to do three of these type setups on any given mission.  My plan on the first two engagements was to light the burners as soon as we passed and get going as fast as I could in a very shallow climb to get well above the horizon.  Once we got to 10 miles, I would pull the aircraft into an immelman, reversing direction in the vertical.  I planned this maneuver so as to top out below the contrail level, but at least 20k' higher than when we passed. 
 
Yes, it's an E-model, but it's the only picture I could find of a vertical pitch up without runway. Sheesh
Source


20k exceeded the altitude covered by the radar at 10 mile range.

Also, since I didn't see my opponent pulling a contrail, I knew he was below me, making my radar as well as visual lookout much easier.  If I found the target on the radar, I would take a shot if in parameters and call it, but never as a kill.  I enjoyed that swoop down from above to see when he would first see me.

I would use the same tactic and parameters on the second engagement to see if he'd learned and then on the third engagement I would do the same except as a split s instead of an immelman, so I'd be looking up at him.  

This worked pretty well for a while, but then word got around and I'd find myself either nose to nose at 30K or 10K and we'd be neutral from there.  Which was ok, they were after all, on my side.

But that gave me an entre' into more complex tactics for larger formations.  Tucking people into close formations and then spitting them out at critical portions of the intercept to knock the other guys off their game and complicate their targeting.  The squadron, and wing, even the LTs became very, very good at their assigned mission.  And on my final mission, I got to return the favor to the Midway FA-18's.

*SJC  But....As I googled the source of the "Old Age and Treachery will beat Youth and Skill" quote, I found this story and a song.  Enjoy!
 A wealthy old lady decides to go on a photo safari in Africa, taking her faithful aged poodle named Cuddles, along for the company. 
One day the poodle starts chasing butterflies and before long, Cuddles discovers that she's lost. Wandering about, she notices a young leopard heading rapidly in her direction with the intention of having lunch. 
The old poodle thinks, "Oh, oh! I'm in deep trouble now!" Noticing some bones on the ground close by, she immediately settles down to chew on the bones with her back to the approaching cat. 
Just as the leopard is about to leap, the old poodle exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder if there are any more around here?" 
Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. "Whew!", says the leopard, "That was close! That old poodle nearly had me!" 
Meanwhile, a monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the leopard. 
So off he goes, but the old poodle sees him heading after the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up. 
The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard. 
The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, "Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!" 
Now, the old poodle sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back and thinks, "What am I going to do now?", but instead of running, the dog sits down with her back to her attackers, pretending she hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old poodle says: "Where's that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!" 

gotta love it!! 











6 comments:

  1. " the Red Baron's adage was very valid. "It's not the crate, it's the man inside the crate."" I think Gen. Yeagar said much the same. It's been years since I've read his autobiography, but I sort of recall one of his WWII stories about taking people who were bragging that Fighter X was far superior to what he was flying, and going up and and consistently taking the contest, then swapping aircraft and doing it again. And didn't he do the same with a captured MiG-15? Flew it and won, flew American planes against it and won?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joe,
      It's definitely the Pilot, IMHO. I've had my butt handed to me on the post mission video by guys flying aircraft much less capable than mine (the agressor pilots come to mind). The good news is they were very well trained and very talented at debriefing exactly what went wrong. Being the only F-15 wing in the western Pacific back then, we spent a lot of time with them and learned an awful lot. Had Mr Kim decided to visit South Korea, I don't think he'd have had an Air Force after day 2 of his visit. And probably not a capital much later. The agressors were fabulous training aids (and great guys).
      juvat

      Delete
  2. Juvat, reading your stories is always exciting and terrifying to me at the same time. I cannot imagine practicing that sort of split second judgement.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. THBB,
      It took a while, I had great instructors and flight leads and to be honest, I learned more about Air to Air teaching it as an Instructor Pilot than I had as just a regular pilot. I'm pretty sure that once the fight started there was no thinking "What do I do next?" it was all instinctive reaction that took about 10 years of flying to hone.
      And yes, I still got my butt handed to me a time or two!
      juvat

      Delete
  3. It's amazing! Fighter pilots telling stories without the hand gesticulating. But, all that waving around inhibits their imbibing adult beverages, so maybe this is better. And, no expensive watches were shot in this rendition of aeronautical history. Perhaps there was some slight embellishment, but it's his story.

    Very interesting to peek inside the aviator thought process for tactics and strategy. The best are really sharp and clever and get inside the other pilot's OODA loop and live to tell their version of the tale.

    This story reminds me very much of hizzoner Neptunus Lex's engagement with some of Juvat's buddies.
    https://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/killing-an-eagle/

    I bet a 1v1 between Lex and Juvat would be a tough one. And the bar tab immense afterwards.
    John Blackshoe

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. JB,
      Thanks for pointing me to that Article by Lex. Very interesting. And I could see how that might happen. He had a few advantages. One, he was an excellent fighter pilot! Two, anybody he saw was an opponent and he could shoot, he didn’t have to waste time ID’ing the jet. Three, the Eagle’s mutual support broke down, always a bad thing. All those things led to the debacle the F-15’s endured. C’est La Vie! It wasn’t real combat, so maybe they learned a thing or two and did better the next time. Who Knows. I’ve had my butt handed to me a time or two and I’ve returned the favor.. The only time it’s winning or losing is truly important is when the real weapons are in the air.

      That having been said, Lex was a fine author wasn’t he?
      juvat

      Delete

Just be polite... that's all I ask. (For Buck)
Can't be nice, go somewhere else...

NOTE: Comments on posts over 5 days old go into moderation, automatically.